Cork City - anti social behaviour etc... what's being done?

sporina · 17-02-2023 09:28PM #1

The streets are a mess with folk strung out or using.. drugs... alcohol.. /fighting.. shouting at one another like they are in a world of their own..

Whats being done about this?

Its not a nice place to be anymore.. I don't wanna bring my family down for a weekend.. not a nice place to hang out..

PS I feel for these people.. but its not right having this going on so openly in town? like its acceptable..

whisky_galore · 18-02-2023 08:26AM

My guess. Nothing.

People don't want to see shooting up on their doorsteps, but neither do they want injection centres where things might be at least managed.

Alcohol was always around but now you have cheap and widely available drugs. Lets face it, we can't stop drugs coming into the country but we can do something to reduce demand. It's probably too late for current hardcore users but not for the next generation if money was put into programs to stop them becoming users in the first place, money that we seem to fling at everything else.

Mav11 · 18-02-2023 10:42AM

The issues concerning the state of the city were covered by Prendeville on Thurs morning. Some interesting views on the problem.

sporina · 18-02-2023 01:48PM

i've decided to send an email to the council - no point in me moaning without doing something about it..

Mav11 · 18-02-2023 02:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257262#Comment_120257262

I might be cynical but I don't think that will do any good. The council, along with others are completely disinterested and avoid taking any responsibility for the problem!

Douglas Eegit · 18-02-2023 02:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257539#Comment_120257539

I wouldn't be so certain about that. If the noise is kept up something might actually be done

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-41074379.html

thomil · 18-02-2023 02:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257539#Comment_120257539

To be honest, what can the council actually do? Sure, they can call on Gardaí to put more boots on the street, but given how centralised law enforcement in this country is, they might as well be yelling at clouds, especially since AGS seems to be stretched thin everywhere. And even with an increased Garda presence on the streets, that'll only be symbolic until the courts start being tougher in their sentencing. This latter part is the biggest issue in my eyes.

As for things like safe injection centres, exit/withdrawal programs, etc., even if Cork City Council gave a damn about that, which they obviously don't, and even if they could vote the necessary bills through the council, which there's a snowball's chance in hell of that happening given evolutionary detritus such as councillors Paudie Dineen, Terry Shannon, Ken O'Flynn and other evolutionary dead ends, the "good" citizens of this city would sue the council into oblivion to keep any such initiatives from getting of the ground. Don't get me wrong, I'm totally in favour of such initiatives, I just have no faith at all in the people of Cork actually being able to make a sensible decision. They seem to have elevated "shooting yourself in the foot with a 12-inch naval gun" to an art form!

igCorcaigh · 18-02-2023 11:02PM

OK, hear me out.

What the Lord Mayor was expressing is the horror of the sight of people drinking vodka, people openly dealing drugs, or junkies etc. The sight of it shocked her, making her feel unsafe.

Those people, I do not think are threatening. There is nowhere for a person with addiction problems to go to. They are treated like criminals. But they are victims, without any form of proper care from the State.

It is ultimately the failure of the State to provide these people with what they need. Bring people into the system. There is your heroin, there is whatever else you need.

They are left on the streets. A total failure of government policy.

Mav11 · 19-02-2023 07:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259631#Comment_120259631

Bring people into the system.

Yes. Take the users out of the criminal justice system and bring them into the health system. BUT would you trust the HSE with anything??

the beer revolu · 19-02-2023 11:46AM

This thread (up to now) has been unusually compassionate and reasonable compared to the posts we typically get regarding antisocial behaviour and those accused of it.

The reality is that there is no simple solution and any serious effort would take probably 2 generations to bed in. That's far too long term for any politician in our system.

Unfortunately, though, our society is becoming more unequal and more polorised. I don't see things getting better any time soon.

sporina · 19-02-2023 12:11PM

its the kids I worry about - seeing folk carrying on like that - using and fighting - like its a norm..

there's always hope that something will change - i've done my bit anyway.. no point moaning and not doing something about it..

ALB2022 · 19-02-2023 12:42PM

It was only a matter of time unfortunately. It's also only a matter of time before people start exaggerating it into 'no go' areas.

I'm just back from Lisbon and they had an interesting approach (decriminalisation with resouces focused elsewhere). It made the city feel safer despite drug use obviously being rampant...alhough the drinking culture wouldn't be near as out of control there.

Along with whatever resources can be put into Health and Welfare, maybe containment areas outside of our main cities is the only solution?

Mav11 · 19-02-2023 01:26PM

Bit of a long one here. Bear with me on my rant!!

You know, I don’t think that the problem is that complex or difficult to address, if only our dysfunctional, self-serving institutions got off their collective rear ends and stopped allowing the issues to get worse.

I support the “Broken Windows” theory of crime. This tells us that visible signs of crime, dereliction or anti-social behaviour in an urban context perpetuates and encourages further crime and anti-social behaviour. So if you don’t address the problem of the drug dealer in Bishop Lucey park or McCurtain st or the Lr Rd where I have seen it myself, it encourages further drug dealing and anti-social behaviour as these individuals feel that they can act with impunity. This is an issue for the criminal justice system (Courts, Prisons and Gardai) to deal with. Which they have increasingly become ineffectual at doing. So deal with the source of the problem harshly and deal with the poor misfortunates (the addicts) in a compassionate and caring manner.

It now appears that people are becoming increasingly fearful of walking around town. Listen to Prendville on Friday (I catch up with the podcasts at the weekends).

So now lets look at our wonderful council. It is clear that if more people and families were living in the city centre it would lead to a better and more vibrant atmosphere and consequently a reduction in undesirable behaviour and make the centre more desirable and people less fearful. Easy peasy, win win, more life in the centre, more accommodation at a time when we are crying out for more! Correct??

Prendville Friday again. Metro Man Barbershop in Marlborough st. is using the ground floor for its business but has to pay extortionate rates to the council for the whole building. So they contact the council with a view to turning the upper floors into homes / apartments.

Council: You can’t do that, Fire officer wouldn’t allow it.

Barber Shop: Couldn’t we put in a fire escape like they do in New York?

Council: You can’t do that, planning wouldn’t allow it.

So no solutions from the council, only problems and perpetuation of the issues.

I do honestly believe that inaction by our institutions is part of the problem. But from their perspective its safer and easier to do nothing, than it is to try something and fail!

Rant over.

BagofWeed · 19-02-2023 01:48PM

I'm not saying Cork is perfect but the fear mongering here is on another level, some locals are afraid of their own shadows.

Most of the current trouble relating to drugs comes from the 05/06 years when Heroin got more plentiful and cheaper after the Afghan war. The pharmaceutical prescription pills have caused havoc too but the Gardaí, courts and media don't tend to focus too much on them unfortunately. The closure of Spike and the resulting move of young prisoners to a Dublin prison full of Heroin was in my opinion a disgraceful act and is the main direct cause of Cork's Heroin issue.

And because younger people have little or no prospects for independent living it's only going to get far worse especially around the hostels.

sporina · 19-02-2023 08:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120261057#Comment_120261057

its not fear mongering... its calling a spade a spade.. the city has become a sh*thole.. tis like a messed up circus.. and its a daily thing.. the antisocial behaviour is just soo "present".. in the main streets.. like I said - not good for the people who live/work there - or for tourism..

Straight Talker · 19-02-2023 09:06PM

It's not just the drink and drug related anti social behaviour, there's the business closures and general dereliction in some parts of the city centre as well. Personally myself i think Cork was at it's best in the 90's and early 00's. In my opinion the city has gone downhill rapidly since from about 2014 onwards. Other cities and towns around the country though, have also had a huge increase in anti social behaviour on the streets since covid.

So while our city does have it's problems, those problems aren't exclusive to Cork alone. Lack of garda resources, a soft judicial system, and our decade long hard drugs problem have all had a detrimental impact on our city imo.

I just don't think the will or the appetite to do anything about the problem, is there from the relevant authorities though. The same thing happened in Dublin, everyone just turned a blind eye to it. I still love Cork and i'm still proud of being from Cork, it's just that i'm not much of a fan of the post covid version of the city sadly.

whisky_galore · 20-02-2023 09:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257603#Comment_120257603

Yesterday's men and women will hold this up until it's too late, the 'lock them up and throw away the key sorts' but on the other hand they wouldn't want a prison built next to them or putting money into stopping it at source.

whisky_galore · 20-02-2023 10:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257563#Comment_120257563

I can see Garda 'Operation such and such' rolled out for a few months and wound down after the fuss has died down.

Rinse and repeat.

notAMember · 22-02-2023 10:07AM

The city is manky, and plenty of this is/was the councils responsibility. When I was a small child, the city manager would go for a walk around the city most days, I'd see him, people knew who it was. They kept on top of the day to day maintenance. Wtf are they doing now, hiding in their office approving capital projects? Does anyone here know who it even is anymore?

The streets look messy. The street furniture (lights, robot trees etc) makes the place uncleanable by machines. Adding now-rotting wooden "parklets" is just more mess in my opinion. They look good for a few months, and then no maintenance.

Heavily noise polluted. People screaming religious stuff, amps blaring poor quality singing. Traffic noise.

Smell. Dirt, traffic fumes, drains blocked, river not dredged correctly. bins overflowing, no toilets so people piss and worse on the streets.

Mature trees were cut down, replaced with saplings, which will take decades to become useful noise absorption / air quality / visually appealing.

Boarded up shops. The idiotic rules preventing development and investment in upper floors makes buildings decay, and prevents growth of residential occupancy. The poor public transport and low park availability doesn't encourage footfall either. It's very difficult to run any business in the city and it's unpleasant to bring children in there. When my children were small, I used to enjoy bringing them to the public library and into bishop lucey park. That area is now revoltingly dirty and feels dangerous, I wouldn't head for there myself, let alone with children.

When you have all that, are we surprised that the love for the city is reduced? If you put people in a tip, they will behave like it is a tip. I don't see any accountability for the fundamental problems. So to answer your question on what is being done, it doesn't matter. They will faff about the edges with new programs, but miss the basics.

Best bet sporina, is to move.

the beer revolu · 22-02-2023 11:57AM

I think there's a serious case to be made that we view our surroundings differently at different stages of our lives.

In our teens and 20s, life and our surroundings seem to have more potential and we focus on the good and tend to ignore the bad.

Again, as young parents, there is an optimism.

But as we enter later stages in life, we tend to see the worst around us as many people become disillusioned and bleaker in their outlook.

This may explain why for as long as there have been people in cities, there have always been people harping back to better times and claiming that their city has gone to hell in a hand basket. It will always be such. It's generational.

A post above which, to be fair, points out many genuine failings, is so negative, one sided, and pessimistic, that I can only assume it comes from a place of depression. A place where only darkness and misery can be seen from.

Our country, society and city has problems. They can be overcome and let's hope they will be.

sporina · 22-02-2023 01:00PM

@notAMember move? no! i'm just focusing on the good stuff and I get out of the city a lot to hike etc..

era I can only hope that things get better in town though

Mav11 · 22-02-2023 02:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274635#Comment_120274635

Spot on Beer. There is a noticeable and general increase in societal violence and anti social behaviour in recent years. All you have to do is witness the shenanigans in Ballyfermot in recent times to get an idea of the extent of the problem.

However I do think / hope that there is the beginning of a growing awareness in Government as to the extent of the problem. Witness the recent sentencing of that 14 yo scrote who stabbed and murdered that poor woman in the IFSC.

I've said it above that I believe that State behaviour / inaction up to now is a large part of the problem, maybe State action can now be part of the solution!

whisky_galore · 23-02-2023 08:43AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275410#Comment_120275410

Until a minister or judge is stabbed, nothing much will happen.

whisky_galore · 23-02-2023 08:54AM

Agree with parklets being awful. Budget garden centre 'improvements', like you'd see in a beer garden.

Everyone seems to forget they need to be constantly maintained to stop them from looking shabby.

Mav11 · 23-02-2023 08:57AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277993#Comment_120277993

It might speed the "conversation" up a tad!

https://www.thejournal.ie/national-conversation-on-violence-taoiseach-6000786-Feb2023/

whisky_galore · 23-02-2023 09:03AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278025#Comment_120278025

They need a good dose of the 'other Ireland' at times, outside of their bubble, like Joan in Jobstown.

Straight Talker · 23-02-2023 08:32PM

The people tasked with the day to day running welfare and maintenance of our city really are a disgrace. Of course you could say this about every single local authority in Ireland, but Cork has the potential to be a much better city than it currently is. More guards on the beat will help keep the thugs off the streets, but of course the numbers aren't there to police the city effectively.

We have a city council that won't reduce rents, and we have greedy landlords allowing their premises in the city centre to fall into disrepair. Times have changed of course as well obviously. The days of people going into town for their shopping on a Saturday is long gone. People now use places like Mahon Point and Amazon instead. Yeah suburban shopping centres and Jeff Bezos have killed the concept of the high street as we used to know it!

But that's the thing change is a constant in life change happens every single day, sometimes it's for the better and other times it sadly isn't. We all want a city that's the best city it can possibly be for both locals and visitors alike. Who knows maybe in another ten years Cork might be a remarkably changed and improved city. It can happen if the will and wherewithal is there to make it happen.

sporina · 23-02-2023 09:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280956#Comment_120280956

don't know what the occupancy rates are but defo less than say pre covid..

as for anti social behaviour - its rampant.. there are so many begging.. consuming drugs and alcohol and roaming around shouting at one another like they are in a world of their own.. saw one lad today staggering up french church st at 1pm with a can of beer in his hand.. its a regular thing.. and I have to say that I did not see 1 cop on the beat today while I was in town actually I rarely see them

Ozvaldo · 23-02-2023 10:03PM

lot of wackers in there with the tracksuits and white socks

sporina · 23-02-2023 10:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120281462#Comment_120281462

and lots of relatively dressed folk begging too - definitely don't look homeless

Thelonious Monk · 23-02-2023 10:34PM

I was there twice in the last year for a wedding and visiting a friend, first visits to Cork City in my life. First time I stayed in a Maldron near the quays and second time another run down kind of old yellow hospital Maldron a bit more inland up a hill which wasn't very nice mind. Didn't notice any of the stuff you're talking about here really. I did see some heroin addicts, they look just like Dublin ones, and a group of teens or two in the same uniform as what we have in Dublin. But I mean you see addicts and down and outs in every city in the world, even in Zurich and places like that. No one bothered me at all.

I went for a jog at night along the river and around some little park and back, just looking on a map it's called Fitzgerald's park, not many people around but I remember some people drinking cans on benches around that way. I did notice there aren't many people at all walking around at night compared to London where I have been for a while (obviously) but also Dublin seems far busier with people, which makes sense given its size. And the traffic is brutal in the centre, in parts anyway.

There are loads of dilapidated buildings though, but I was probably on the lookout for these as a guy posts photos of them on Twitter all the time, Frank O'Connor I think is his name.

Anyway it didn't seem in the least bit dodgy to me, but this site thinks Dublin is like Caracas or somewhere like that so I'm not surprised you all think it's rough. I was just a bit disappointed at how quiet it was at night and it seemed really dark and a bit run down especially on what I think was the northside around where that yellow Maldron was. Grand place though.

Cork City - anti social behaviour etc... what's being done?

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