General Rugby Discussion 3

AbusesToilets · 15-02-2023 11:32AM

Very real chance that the Welsh players go on strike to protest the appalling mishandling of contracts and financial affairs by the WRU. It would be nice if players from other nations showed some solidarity with the Welsh. Absolute shambolic treatment of the professional game by the WRU and a pretty desperate and vulnerable position to leave players in.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/i-cant-apply-for-a-mortgage-and-im-on-antidepressants-wales-threaten-six-nations-strike-over-contract-dispute-42342493.html

StevenToast · 15-02-2023 11:37AM

Gatland must be wondering what sort of shìtshow he came back to....

Brutal on and off the pitch....

Welsh rugby is in the shìtter.....

Former Former Former · 15-02-2023 11:43AM

In fairness to the WRU, all we know is that the financial deal has not been signed. It may well be the regions who are refusing to agree to it.

Awful mess regardless.

Dave_The_Sheep · 15-02-2023 11:50AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243079#Comment_120243079

Gatland is and was a part of it all. He was the WRU hired coach from 2007-2019 and is back again now. This is chickens coming home to roost for him too.

VinLieger · 15-02-2023 11:53AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243128#Comment_120243128

Yup seeing many Welsh fans blaming Gatland for this in the first place.

Quin_Dub · 15-02-2023 12:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243100#Comment_120243100

Everything about the WRU is a shambles.

They are really in a massive hole right now.

A clearly toxic culture & work environment in the administration , appalling financial planning/management and a complete failure to create any kind of rugby structure to develop the regions and players.

Hard to see any kind of short term improvement, anything that's needed is a 5+ year effort.

Have to have sympathy with the Wales based players - none of them have any kind of security or clarity about their jobs and their futures.

Hearing that International players can't get mortgages and are struggling with their mental health is awful - These are supposed to be elite athletes doing something they love..

15-02-2023 12:28PM

Wales could quite quickly find themselves in the same bracket as Italy if things keep going as they are. Wales obviously have a recent history of success and a track record as a top tier side but the challenges facing them are very significant.

The WRU clearly has a major governance issue. The decision makers appear to be self interested, problematically old school and intractable. It would appear that a major restructure of personnel is required but people don't step off the gravy train voluntarily. Their acting CEO has a decent background but realistically a full clear out is in order and a complete operational rethink needs to happen at all levels of the game in Wales.

The governance issues have leeched into everything at this stage and are directly impacting both the regions, the national team and indeed juvenile development. All three are at an almost historically low ebb concurrently and there is potential for a complete collapse with the u20's now a non entity, the regions sitting at the bottom of the URC and the national team potentially about to go on strike before their biggest fixture.

With England at home and then Italy and France away there is a real risk her of 0 wins from 5. Whilst that would be a disaster - it might also be a catalyst for some hard decisions to be made.

Astonishing reading the last 24 hours in relation to the contracts, lot's of players being very public about their concerns. Absolutely dire situation.

Blut2 · 15-02-2023 12:34PM

You'd really feel for the players putting their bodies on the line for such uncertainty, thats an awful situation for them.

The WRU is an absolute disaster by all accounts. They need to bring in actual qualified business people instead of people who used to be good at rugby to reform the whole system. And, in all likelihood, probably disband one of the regions, on top.

This struck me as one thing outside of their control though: "when the WRU took a £20million loan from the Welsh Government. The money was handed out to the regions and without it, they would not have survived. But each of Dragons, Cardiff, Ospreys and Scarlets have to repay their £5m share over 20 years with an annual interest of 10 per cent."

At a time when interest rates were 0% is this not the Welsh government deliberately screwing over the WRU? 10% is an insane interest rate, thats going to be very difficult to get out from under.

15-02-2023 12:50PM

10%??

What in the name of god. That'll about double the amount they're repaying over the 20 years.

sydthebeat · 15-02-2023 12:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243304#Comment_120243304

i hope thats a simple interest rate and not compound !!

Quin_Dub · 15-02-2023 01:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243413#Comment_120243413

Don't think it will make much difference.

They are screwed.

They are talking about the 4 regions having a budget of £4.5M per year and for the majority of players to be on "variable" contracts - Meaning a low base salary and then the rest being based on number of games played etc. According to the reports most players will have a base salary of between 30-100k per year.

Most of them currently have playing squads of ~50 plus however many coaches and support staff, maybe another 20/25 people.

£4.5M divided by 70/75 people does not go very far at all

Such a tiny budget will mean much smaller squads which means more games for the players and with their salaries being based on the number of games played , players will feel obliged to play as much as possible to ensure they make enough money.

Player welfare will be out the window - Any half decent player will be gone overseas - A regional player would probably earn more playing in Pro D2 in France than they would turning out for the Dragons or the Scarlets.

15-02-2023 01:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243602#Comment_120243602

If this is accurate then I can't see any situation whereby they retain all four provinces - the model you describe isn't sustainable and anyone capable of making the Welsh 23 will almost certainly be playing outside of Wales.

There are no good solutions here.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 15-02-2023 03:00PM

At the moment the wru subsidise the regions to a combined tune of 23 million a year with the current deal expiring this year.

They are now offering a 5 year deal with 28 million in year 1 and 18 million a year thereafter.

The principality premiership gets 4 million in subsidies while the amateur game gets about 12 million which mainly goes in boot money at j2 to j5 levels.

Blut2 · 15-02-2023 03:12PM

Boot money is a huge problem in Wales. Lots of the clubs try to poach each others players with ever increasing amounts of it, so its just become an arms race to spend it. And the vast majority of the guys it goes to would be playing either way without it, all it does is move them from club to club. It'd be much better off invested in facilities and/or coaching.

pickarooney · 15-02-2023 03:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243640#Comment_120243640

Is this the opportunity they've been looking for to join the premiership? Kill off two clubs and replace Worcester/Wasps with the other two?

15-02-2023 04:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244133#Comment_120244133

Wasn't there an article or something recently where it was abundantly clear that premiership rugby had zero interest in Welsh teams?

Quin_Dub · 15-02-2023 04:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244076#Comment_120244076

Which again speaks to the utter lack of professionalism (and deep seated cronyism) in the WRU.

Boot money gets killed off with decent budget oversight - Clubs receiving funding from the WRU should have to submit certified accounts to show how it is being spent - If it's on boot money then they don't get any money next season.

But given that the WRU is controlled by those very same "amateur" clubs that are paying the boot money , nothing gets done.

Having been involved in club administration here I know that every penny received from either Branch or Union level has to be accounted for in minute detail and is typically only received after making an application for a specific item like rugby equipment or facilities improvements , there's just no way that IRFU money gets to be spent on boot money here.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 15-02-2023 05:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244407#Comment_120244407

Premiership rugby CEO more or less stated it being interviewed by a commons select Committee after collapse of Worcester and Wasps.

lawrencesummers · 15-02-2023 05:53PM

It looks now like the welsh teams need the english and the english need the welsh, but thats not looking at every aspect of the equation.

Quin_Dub · 15-02-2023 05:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244811#Comment_120244811

But the Welsh bring nothing to the table - Adding 2 Welsh teams isn't going to increase the TV/advertising money at all and if Welsh fans can't be bothered going an hour or so down the road to watch a Welsh derby then they are hardly going to travel to the South East of England for games.

They offer nothing to the English league whatsoever.

lawrencesummers · 15-02-2023 06:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244835#Comment_120244835

Except the opportunity to make up the numbers in the league and make the premiership viable as a competition.

Shehal · 15-02-2023 06:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243079#Comment_120243079

He got himself a 5 year deal & a whopping wage package so I'd say he's happy enough either way.

Pudsy33 · 15-02-2023 07:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244986#Comment_120244986

Adding one clusterfuck to another isn't going to solve anyone's problems.

AbusesToilets · 15-02-2023 07:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244986#Comment_120244986

When they're adding so much to the URC at the moment? The only viable for any sort of merger is a full B&I league. That would present a greater potential monetary vehicle for revenue generation.

Blut2 · 15-02-2023 07:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244554#Comment_120244554

Thats great to hear its more controlled in Irish clubs.

I personally know a couple of Welsh guys who get £150 per week in boot money. They both got offered the money to move clubs (ie were poached) and they both took it. They're good players, they're mid table J1 standard, but they were playing for free anyway and would have continued to do so because they love the game. And that money, while a nice bonus, isn't enough for them not to have real world jobs or enough to justify focusing their entire lives around rugby, its not going to keep them in the game when real life gets in the way. And they're both late 20s - they're not going to go pro, theres no developmental justification, they're already at their ceiling.

Its pocket change to the WRU for an individual player, but replicated across an entire country hundreds or thousands of times... Its just such a waste of very valuable money for the WRU, they don't achieve anything for the outlay.

lawrencesummers · 15-02-2023 09:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245125#Comment_120245125

Yep, two mismanaged situations coupled together just makes one massive mismanaged situation with two sides.

Thats not to say that some wont see it as a solution, bearing in mind that this doesnt take into account current contractual obligations

Mal-Adjusted · 15-02-2023 11:20PM

I feel kinda stupid for asking, but what's boot money? Where does the name come from?

kksaints · 15-02-2023 11:39PM

Is there any procedure in place if the Wales players go on strike and the match is cancelled? I know UEFA has a set procedure with heavy fines and forfeits for the striking team but does the six nations have anything. Now I don't expect the Welsh players to actually strike but it's not a good sign that they're even considering it for the WRU.

ersatz · 15-02-2023 11:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245176#Comment_120245176

In principle it's a horribly destructive practice as it creates useless incentives that undermine club cohesion and the culture of competition between clubs through poaching, but it's not very significant as a financial burden (a few hundred grand overall). It is completely insane though and suggests that there may be greater financial problems going on if clubs are cavalier and unregulated in ways that allow these practices to persist. Warburton published a piece a while ago about the state of Welsh governance and it was a tough read. Amateur hour from top to bottom with no grownups in the room.

And on joining the premiership, you could see a situation where one or more Welsh teams get relegated. Absolute **** show awaits.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 15-02-2023 11:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246466#Comment_120246466

When rugby was "fully amateur" and there was no contracted professionals and payments to players would be forbidden but players would have cash slipped into their boots in the changing rooms after the game for playing.

Actually when soccer was fully amateur it happened too.

General Rugby Discussion 3

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