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General Rugby Discussion 3



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,985 Mod ✭✭✭✭ aloooof

    Playing devils advocate (and I’m loathe to be on the side defending this decision) but haven’t the changes with regard tackle height etc. all come in after 2016?

    In that sense, there’s at least some logic to disregard it, in that there were different standards / expectations at the time.

  • Subscribers Posts: 37,746 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat

    while i can see your line of thinking, the counter to that is that high, dangerous tackles were already red card offences in 2016.... they did not just become red card offences when the 'high tackle protocols' were introduce.

    If anything a red card for a high dangerous tackle in 2016 was an even more egregious act than in 2023.

    Funnily enough in 2016 there was one week added to the sanction "to act as a deterrent".... fat lot of good that did.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,985 Mod ✭✭✭✭ aloooof

    Ya, I guess the point is that some incidents now that would receive red cards, may have been yellow card candidates back in 2016 tho. (And full disclosure, I haven't see this Owen Farrell incident).

    But ya, tbh, him getting any reduction for "tackle school" or whatever they're calling it is farcical with his history at this point.

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,130 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Quin_Dub

    There are many many things wrong with the Disciplinary process.

    But the "good behaviour" reductions are something that really annoys me.

    The idea that a player can get a reduction in their sentence because of "good behaviour at the hearing" etc. is patently ridiculous.

    That a professional adult behaves appropriately at a hearing should be a given and anything other than said "good behaviour" should carry serious consequences.

    But that's only one of many inconsistencies and anomolies in the entire process.

  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 33,537 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pickarooney

    Let's be honest, the whole thing is a farce.

    Having to basically go to court and say you're sorry for mistiming a tackle - does any other sport have this sort of charade?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭ Ben Bailey

    "Logic" would dictate that those pre 2017 disciplinary decisions should be taken into account, but viewed in their context.

    Ignoring them entirely is not logical.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,657 ✭✭✭ Lost Ormond

    I think the system in rugby is far better than a lot of sports especially those in ireland. You have to attend a discipline meeting if it's deemed the offence if seen in game could have been awarded a red card. What would you propose as an alternative?

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,462 ✭✭✭ Yeah_Right

    The fact it's only his 3rd red card is farcical. He should probably be getting 3 a season for the way he tackles.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,657 ✭✭✭ Lost Ormond

    SSI colleges competitions were launched and drawn in the aviva today. Such a shame these can't be built up/promoted more. Will never get to level of singers on etc but shame a bit more isn't done to prom9te these comps....

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,730 ✭✭✭ Fresh to Death

    Hell of a game so far in Clermont between Leicester & Clermont. 5 tries in the first 35 mins.

    Clermont might be the best rugby ground in the world.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers

    There seems to be a clear instruction to refs that the TMO should be used more sparingly.

    Frank wasnt checking that try when he should have, farrels hit should have been checked.

    There is a balance between using the TMO and keeping disruptions to a minimum but it runs the risk of missing match defining moments that could have been checked

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭ hold my beer

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,335 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    Of course it runs that risk, but you can't eliminate that risk without checking everything.

    I think that was all in all excellent work by the reffing team.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers

    No, as soon as it was grounded i felt murphy should have checked it. He was unsighted for the knock on and made a decision which was wrong.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,335 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    I think refs would call that as a knock on 99 times out of 100. These are the type of calls we want them to make to me. He did well by not whistling it dead til after the touchdown and then the TMO did a good job to bring his attention to it.

    If you demand he check that then you are back to checking almost everything.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers

    A ref shouldn't call a knockon that he doesnt see and when it results in a grounding he should check it, and in this case Of course you demand he check that because it was a valid try.

    The TMO saved his bacon by calling it, and the players refusal to start the scrum allowed that call to come in.

    “Checking everything” never happens, but moments where games are won and lost should and are checked or at least have been checked

    If the teams in this situation had been reversed you can be sure the french producers wouldnt have got the replay to the TMO as quick and the game would have gone on unless the ref asked to check it

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,335 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    Of course you demand he check that because it was a valid try

    This is results based thinking though. If the ref doesn't check every single potential try with the TMO then they are going to miss something eventually.

    The TMO didn't save his bacon, the protocols all worked as they should without delaying the game unnecessarily.

    You are demanding that every potential try be checked with the TMO by your logic.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers

    Not every potential try, because some are very obviously not valid scores.

    That one was not in that category.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,335 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    Some "very obviously" not scores will in fact be scores though and we're back to the same position.

    I thought that was a knock on. It was incredibly close and easy to see how anyone looking at it would think it was.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers

    Looking like clermont will get exactly what they deserve from this.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers

    And anyone that wasnt looking at it (like frank) should have sought to check because its a crucial moment.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,235 ✭✭✭✭ CIARAN_BOYLE

    There was clear instructions to refs that TMO should be used more sparingly.

    What there needs to be imo is TMOs raising a flag to a referee when there is issues (with tries or foul play that result in cards). I don't want to go back the way it was where a referee would ask a TMO about something. They would stop, watch a dozen angles and come to a conclusion together.

    The TMO is a referee he should be able to say there was an incident here. Here's the correct angle. I recommend a yellow.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers

    And this was an example where the ref should have used him.

    There was a grounding and he didnt see the knock on, but awarded it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,235 ✭✭✭✭ CIARAN_BOYLE

    My point was that it shouldn't be the referees decision to check things.

    The TMO is a trained referee. He should imo be checking things in the background and speaking up if theres an issue.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,335 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl

    He thought he saw a knock on. It looked incredibly like a knock on live.

    This is just proof that you will never make everyone happy with how it is implemented. But I think we are in a generally good place at the moment

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers

    The referees shouldn't decide to check things?

  • Registered Users Posts: 19 Deramore

    Eddie Jones has been appointed Australia head coach on a five-year deal. Dave Rennie has been sacked.

    Jones is set coach the Wallabies at TWO World Cups - including 2027 on home soil - and against the 2025 British & Irish Lions.

    per Alex Lowe on Twitter

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭ CMcsporty

    That is unbelievable!!!

    There is a fair chance that they could even play each other in the Quarterfinals.

    Serves RFU right if they do. Ridiculous decision to fire him.

    I do not like Eddie Jones but I think this is a brilliant move.

    Conversely im not sure if it’s a brilliant move by Australia. I feel sorry for Rennie but I can see their logic. World Class coach and proven World Cup head coach.

    Its made the WC even more exciting and intriguing anyway.

    I might even watch the Lions again..if Jones lasts!

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,730 ✭✭✭ Fresh to Death

    Borthwick has named his first England squad for the upcoming 6Ns, and the headlines so far are on his dropping of Billy Vunipola, Jonny May and Jack Nowell.

    Potential debutants in the squad are Fin Smith, Ollie Hassell-Collins, George McGuigan, Cadan Murray and Jack Walker.

    Full squad:


    Ollie Chessum

    Dan Cole

    Ben Curry

    Alex Dombrandt

    Ben Earl

    Ellis Genge

    Jamie George

    Joe Heyes

    Jonny Hill

    Nick Isiekwe

    Maro Itoje

    Courtney Lawes

    Lewis Ludlam

    George McGuigan (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)

    Bevan Rodd

    Sam Simmonds

    Kyle Sinckler

    Mako Vunipola

    Jack Walker (Harlequins, uncapped)

    Jack Willis


    Elliot Daly

    Owen Farrell

    Tommy Freeman

    Ollie Hassell-Collins (London Irish, uncapped)

    Dan Kelly

    Max Malins

    Joe Marchant

    Alex Mitchell

    Cadan Murley (Harlequins, uncapped)

    Henry Slade

    Fin Smith (Northampton Saints, uncapped)

    Marcus Smith

    Freddie Steward

    Manu Tuilagi

    Jack van Poortvliet

    Ben Youngs

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭ swiwi_

    Reading some of the (transiently) resurrected threads did anyone else see that match the other day where some kid called Webb Ellis picked the ball and ran with it! What was he thinking? Bet that rule variation never catches on. What’s next, an oval ball LOL.