General Rugby Discussion 3

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120095616#Comment_120095616

Playing devils advocate (and I’m loathe to be on the side defending this decision) but haven’t the changes with regard tackle height etc. all come in after 2016?

In that sense, there’s at least some logic to disregard it, in that there were different standards / expectations at the time.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120096798#Comment_120096798

while i can see your line of thinking, the counter to that is that high, dangerous tackles were already red card offences in 2016.... they did not just become red card offences when the 'high tackle protocols' were introduce.

If anything a red card for a high dangerous tackle in 2016 was an even more egregious act than in 2023.

Funnily enough in 2016 there was one week added to the sanction "to act as a deterrent".... fat lot of good that did.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120097756#Comment_120097756

Ya, I guess the point is that some incidents now that would receive red cards, may have been yellow card candidates back in 2016 tho. (And full disclosure, I haven't see this Owen Farrell incident).

But ya, tbh, him getting any reduction for "tackle school" or whatever they're calling it is farcical with his history at this point.

Quin_Dub

There are many many things wrong with the Disciplinary process.

But the "good behaviour" reductions are something that really annoys me.

The idea that a player can get a reduction in their sentence because of "good behaviour at the hearing" etc. is patently ridiculous.

That a professional adult behaves appropriately at a hearing should be a given and anything other than said "good behaviour" should carry serious consequences.

But that's only one of many inconsistencies and anomolies in the entire process.

pickarooney

Let's be honest, the whole thing is a farce.

Having to basically go to court and say you're sorry for mistiming a tackle - does any other sport have this sort of charade?

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120096798#Comment_120096798

"Logic" would dictate that those pre 2017 disciplinary decisions should be taken into account, but viewed in their context.

Ignoring them entirely is not logical.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120097982#Comment_120097982

I think the system in rugby is far better than a lot of sports especially those in ireland. You have to attend a discipline meeting if it's deemed the offence if seen in game could have been awarded a red card. What would you propose as an alternative?

Yeah_Right

The fact it's only his 3rd red card is farcical. He should probably be getting 3 a season for the way he tackles.

Lost Ormond

SSI colleges competitions were launched and drawn in the aviva today. Such a shame these can't be built up/promoted more. Will never get to level of singers on etc but shame a bit more isn't done to prom9te these comps....

Fresh to Death

Hell of a game so far in Clermont between Leicester & Clermont. 5 tries in the first 35 mins.

Clermont might be the best rugby ground in the world.

lawrencesummers

There seems to be a clear instruction to refs that the TMO should be used more sparingly.

Frank wasnt checking that try when he should have, farrels hit should have been checked.

There is a balance between using the TMO and keeping disruptions to a minimum but it runs the risk of missing match defining moments that could have been checked

hold my beer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120105038#Comment_120105038

That's a quality try there from Leicester

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120105177#Comment_120105177

Of course it runs that risk, but you can't eliminate that risk without checking everything.

I think that was all in all excellent work by the reffing team.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120105184#Comment_120105184

No, as soon as it was grounded i felt murphy should have checked it. He was unsighted for the knock on and made a decision which was wrong.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120105203#Comment_120105203

I think refs would call that as a knock on 99 times out of 100. These are the type of calls we want them to make to me. He did well by not whistling it dead til after the touchdown and then the TMO did a good job to bring his attention to it.

If you demand he check that then you are back to checking almost everything.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120105214#Comment_120105214

A ref shouldn't call a knockon that he doesnt see and when it results in a grounding he should check it, and in this case Of course you demand he check that because it was a valid try.

The TMO saved his bacon by calling it, and the players refusal to start the scrum allowed that call to come in.

“Checking everything” never happens, but moments where games are won and lost should and are checked or at least have been checked

If the teams in this situation had been reversed you can be sure the french producers wouldnt have got the replay to the TMO as quick and the game would have gone on unless the ref asked to check it

Podge_irl

Of course you demand he check that because it was a valid try

This is results based thinking though. If the ref doesn't check every single potential try with the TMO then they are going to miss something eventually.

The TMO didn't save his bacon, the protocols all worked as they should without delaying the game unnecessarily.

You are demanding that every potential try be checked with the TMO by your logic.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120105290#Comment_120105290

Not every potential try, because some are very obviously not valid scores.

That one was not in that category.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120105330#Comment_120105330

Some "very obviously" not scores will in fact be scores though and we're back to the same position.

I thought that was a knock on. It was incredibly close and easy to see how anyone looking at it would think it was.

lawrencesummers

Looking like clermont will get exactly what they deserve from this.

Nothing.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120105357#Comment_120105357

And anyone that wasnt looking at it (like frank) should have sought to check because its a crucial moment.

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120105177#Comment_120105177

There was clear instructions to refs that TMO should be used more sparingly.

What there needs to be imo is TMOs raising a flag to a referee when there is issues (with tries or foul play that result in cards). I don't want to go back the way it was where a referee would ask a TMO about something. They would stop, watch a dozen angles and come to a conclusion together.

The TMO is a referee he should be able to say there was an incident here. Here's the correct angle. I recommend a yellow.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120105413#Comment_120105413

And this was an example where the ref should have used him.

There was a grounding and he didnt see the knock on, but awarded it.

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120105506#Comment_120105506

My point was that it shouldn't be the referees decision to check things.

The TMO is a trained referee. He should imo be checking things in the background and speaking up if theres an issue.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120105506#Comment_120105506

He thought he saw a knock on. It looked incredibly like a knock on live.

This is just proof that you will never make everyone happy with how it is implemented. But I think we are in a generally good place at the moment

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120105541#Comment_120105541

The referees shouldn't decide to check things?

Deramore

Eddie Jones has been appointed Australia head coach on a five-year deal. Dave Rennie has been sacked.

Jones is set coach the Wallabies at TWO World Cups - including 2027 on home soil - and against the 2025 British & Irish Lions.

per Alex Lowe on Twitter

CMcsporty

That is unbelievable!!!

There is a fair chance that they could even play each other in the Quarterfinals.

Serves RFU right if they do. Ridiculous decision to fire him.

I do not like Eddie Jones but I think this is a brilliant move.

Conversely im not sure if it’s a brilliant move by Australia. I feel sorry for Rennie but I can see their logic. World Class coach and proven World Cup head coach.

Its made the WC even more exciting and intriguing anyway.

I might even watch the Lions again..if Jones lasts!

Fresh to Death

Borthwick has named his first England squad for the upcoming 6Ns, and the headlines so far are on his dropping of Billy Vunipola, Jonny May and Jack Nowell.

Potential debutants in the squad are Fin Smith, Ollie Hassell-Collins, George McGuigan, Cadan Murray and Jack Walker.

Full squad:

FORWARDS:

Ollie Chessum

Dan Cole

Ben Curry

Alex Dombrandt

Ben Earl

Ellis Genge

Jamie George

Joe Heyes

Jonny Hill

Nick Isiekwe

Maro Itoje

Courtney Lawes

Lewis Ludlam

George McGuigan (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)

Bevan Rodd

Sam Simmonds

Kyle Sinckler

Mako Vunipola

Jack Walker (Harlequins, uncapped)

Jack Willis

BACKS:

Elliot Daly

Owen Farrell

Tommy Freeman

Ollie Hassell-Collins (London Irish, uncapped)

Dan Kelly

Max Malins

Joe Marchant

Alex Mitchell

Cadan Murley (Harlequins, uncapped)

Henry Slade

Fin Smith (Northampton Saints, uncapped)

Marcus Smith

Freddie Steward

Manu Tuilagi

Jack van Poortvliet

Ben Youngs

swiwi_

Reading some of the (transiently) resurrected threads did anyone else see that match the other day where some kid called Webb Ellis picked the ball and ran with it! What was he thinking? Bet that rule variation never catches on. What’s next, an oval ball LOL.