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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Plenty of people wrote Zelensky off when he was first elected, and you can understand why: A comedian who played the President of Ukraine on a TV show becoming the real President looks like the stuff of Hollywood farce - Dave and Man Of The Year being two movies with similar plots.

    But he has certainly stood up to the challenge; undoubtedly the right person to lead Ukraine at the present point of time, and will go down in history as one of the most outstanding leaders of the 21st century. His entire country is behind him. He has right on his side. He has won the support of the most powerful countries in the world. The only people dismissing him as a "comedian" now are the ones that actually, and rightly, fear him.

    The irony is that it's Putin that has been exposed as the real clown. From an objective point of view, it's hard to argue that he shouldn't be replaced - no proper country would put up with his failings. But Putin has made himself so much part of the myth of Russia that they can't admit to the reality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    This is one of the most bizarre posts on the his thread, there have been a lot of stupidly crazy posts by Russian supporters.

    Just because someone’s job was something else does not mean they can be good at another. People change careers successfully all the time. It really sounds like he is doing such a great job (which he is) that comparing him to Putin exposes what a shitshow of a leader Putin is. Therefore he must go because he is Ukrainian, and has his country rallying to his call to defend itself. I’m sure you’d rather of he rolled over and left Ukraine to Russia.

    Ukrainians are not dying for nothing. They are dying for freedom, and so that their children won’t be raped, murdered, kidnapped by Russians. Russians are the ones dying for nothing in the tens of thousands.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,011 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    More nutty views. There have been multiple attempts to kill Zelensky, he's a number one target for Russia. Putin can be willing all he wants, his soldiers are fighting for money, Ukrainians are fighting for their lives and country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    The ability to express one's self via the medium of comedy is an indicator of intelligence.

    The same can be said of musical creativity. Putin, for instance, would be too stupid to comprehend musical structure.

    How can you not know this?

    I'm surprised you're not convinced he's a drug addict too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,357 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    As a template for your idea that surrendering saves lives and there'll be no further genocide, we'll look at the invaded territories.

    Russia comes in. Has a list straight away of who is loyal to Ukraine. Those people are visited and shot. Then for the remaining population they go through filtration camps. The men are locked in cells and tortured for information. If there's any sign of loyalty to Ukraine even a Ukrainian flag on your phone. They're shot.

    Now put this in a language you may understand.

    Britain invades Ireland. There's a significant English speaking population so they feel compelled to invade. They have a list of people from their informants who would be or who have worked with the Irish state or served with their military (if national service was mandatory this would be near everyone) these people are visited and shot. Then filtration camps are set up with the basis of eliminating anyone who would not agree with the British system and culture. If you've an Irish sounding name you're shot. You are asked if you follow the Church of England. If you don't you're shot. The children of the shot are taken into care to be raised as British and follow the Church of England religion. The Irish are told you are all the one with Britain and Ireland was never a country in the first place.

    You see where this has gone.

    This is Ukraine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    I suspect you're trying to imply that "the easy thing was to STAY". Who knows what other points you're misunderstanding?

    Post edited by Curious_Case on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,022 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Putin has been far more successful in killing his own army and destroying his country than Zelensky could ever hope to be. When this is all over and Putin defeated, there will be books written, and movies made about both men, but for the Putin one, it will be about monsters, and the other one will be about hero's and that will be about Zelensky. Cometh the hour, cometh the man, and in the case of Ukraine, that man is Zelensky, savior of Ukraine and the west. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,011 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Ukraine is a sovereign, democratic, free country with plans to join the EU.

    Under full Russian occupation, their culture would be dismantled, their national identity would be erased, they would cease to be a democracy, a puppet would be installed (someone like Yanukovych), they would live under totalitarian control, their kids would be forced to learn only Russian (already happening in occupied areas). Their press outlets would be dismantled and replaced with Russian propaganda organs. Their judiciary would be controlled by a foreign power. Their police and security would be controlled by GRU and FSB. Their politicians would be acting on behalf of Moscow, not the people. They would be imprisoned, tortured, murdered and liquidated arbitrarily (like Bucha, Kherson, Borodyanka). This would be perpetual, a Russian servile state, protected by it's nuclear weapons.

    This is why they are fighting, not just for their lives and families, but for future generations and the existence of their country. They've pushed the Russians all the way back from the outskirts of Kyiv. Yet here you are scratching your head why they haven't stopped and decided to bend the knee to Russia. Again, nutty views that show no grasp whatsoever of what's actually going on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,022 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Plus Putin having an iron grip on the levers of power, and a long history of murdering or jailing anyone who challenges his authority, with the implicit message to the masse's ( a nice Communist word) that if you step out if line, the same fate awaits you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud


    Zaluzhny seems to be the one making the decisions.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭BKtje


    It's an interesting point. What makes anyone a good leader of a country in a specific time. I would say during war you need someone with charisma, ability to speak publicly with ease and passion. An actor or a comedian would be ideal. Charisma, public speaking and the ability to adapt on message delivery depending on the intended audience.

    He doesn't need to be a tactical genius or a master strategist (he has generals for that), he needs to motivate his soldiers and convince foreign countries and their people to help. Comedians are very good at structuring their message for the audience it's intended for. I think I'd much prefer a comedian than an accountant or lawyer who would maybe get too caught up in the details. I'd be less sure of a comedian in peace time though when the details of running a country might be more important than charisma.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭BKtje


    It is this lobby that will force the Swiss Federal government to act. It's great news and may get them to change their laws and contracts. There is already pressure building from multiple sides and they are looking at making a rapid change to the countries laws to allow the export of arms to Ukraine.

    They are saying that the usual process (approx 4 years) is too slow so advocates of the proposed changes are looking at a short term solution to help Ukraine (an exception until 2025 or something) while the long process (which includes a referendum) is respected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Ya think it would make more sense to get outta the foxhole... Then again, they would probably be shot by their own troops.

    Russia have reported to have lost the highest number of soliders in a 24hr period since the war started, 1030. I don't believe it's ever breeched 1000 before. Plenty of new videos coming out with columns of tanks and armor filing single file and being damaged and destroyed.

    If that's how they plan their counteroffensive, they will not get very far at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,716 ✭✭✭storker


    Putin has been far more successful in killing his own army and destroying his country than Zelensky could ever hope to be.

    I suspect the the 2022 invation of Ukraine will be added to the list of miliatry blunders and will be up there with Market-Garden, the Charge of the Light Brigade, etc. as an example of what not to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,011 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Sorry for the Yahoo link, but interesting views from Swiss politicians on their neutrality question

    "The leader of the center-right FDP party, Thierry Burkart, has submitted a motion to the government to allow arms re-exports to countries with similar democratic values to Switzerland.

    “We want to be neutral, but we are part of the western world,” said Burkart.

    He added that Switzerland should not support Russia.

    "We shouldn't have the veto to stop others helping Ukraine,” he told journalists."

    “If we do that, we support Russia – which is not a neutral position.”

    Reuters writes that Swiss social democrats and green liberals adhere to a similar opinion."

    "On Feb. 5, Sotomo published a poll that showed 55% of respondents in Switzerland are in favor of allowing weapons to be re-exported to Ukraine. Pollsters note that if this question had been asked before the war, the answer would probably have been less than 25%."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa



    People who don't understand leadership think that they guy at the top should be making all the decisions. True leadership is giving the experts space to act, and binging them all together under under one common aim. Inspiring people, not instructing them. The last thing Ukraine needs is some melomaniac who thinks he's a 5D chess super-strategist making all the decisions and mucking up at every available opportunity, with no-one being able to tell him he's wrong. And thankfully, they don't have that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 827 ✭✭✭farmingquestion


    There won't be a future generation if they're all put through the meat grinder. You already have "future generations" who have left Ukraine and will never return.

    This war won't end soon. I can still see it being going in 5/10 years time, similar to Syria. It'll just be accepted that there's continuous fighting in Donbas.

    Ukraine will not be able to enter the EU as their borders are not secure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud


    There's an old phrase...."Better to make a hasty retreat than a bad stand"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,011 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,011 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 827 ✭✭✭farmingquestion


    If Ireland got invaded by England they were bombing the whole country to rubble, killing endless amounts of people, I'd happily give up Cork or elsewhere to get peace. Zelensky isn't even willing to allow them Crimea. Life is more important than land at the end of the day.

    It's very easy to say keep fighting when you're thousands of miles away behind a computer screen.

    That's just my opinion, no one might agree with me at all, and that's fine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,716 ✭✭✭storker


    We'd all give up Cork to get a bit of peace but that's not the point...

    😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    So you give them Cork to get peace today (Putting aside the fact that the VAST majority of Ukranians do not want to cede territory for peace). Then tomorrow England demand Tipperary? Do you hand over that for peace? Ok so you give them that. Next year they want your house? Your farm? Your wife? Hand it all over. Sure, life is more important at the end of the day.

    Zelensky doesn't want to hand over Crimea for good reason. Because he knows exactly what will happen if Putin is allowed to gain territory through military aggression.It has already happened, Putin wasn't punished enough in 2014 and here we are. It validates using violence as a means of changing your countries borders. The largely peaceful democratic western values, you know, the ones that underpin your ability to post your contrasting opinions on boards at all? They melt away under such peace.

    It may just be your opinion but opinions can be wrong. And speaking historically, ethically and logically yours is wrong. Sorry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,758 ✭✭✭weisses




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Ukraine will not be able to enter the EU as their borders are not secure.

    Nonsense, Ireland joined the EU with a territorial claim over Northern Ireland. Spain joined with a territorial claim over Gibraltar. Spain and Portugal currently have 18km of officially undefined border around the disputed town of Olivenza/Olivença. Croatia and Serbia have an ongoing border dispute along the Danube. There's other examples too.

    There's nothing in the EU's Conditions of Membership that says you can't have a border dispute with a neighbour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,439 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    You don't get to give up Cork though.

    What are russia's terms for ending a war they've been losing?

    Why would Ukraine accept any losses of territory when russia has been so feeble at attacking?

    Show you're not just another russian shill, critical thought time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,074 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    He's probably making the military decisions, which just underlines how great Zelensky is that he delegates to those who are better than him in their area of expertise. Putin in contrast tried to take direct control of military operations and it didn't go well.

    Post edited by cnocbui on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,457 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    The 'actor as politician' thing is interesting - all that people expected or hoped for from Zelensky when he was elected was that he wouldn't be corrupt. He was elected more as a protest against endemic corruption than anything else.

    Then the war came. And he morphed into the most admired person in the world, Time Person of the Year, and an inspirational leader who knows how to use his position to get the most out of his allies, his military and his people. A complete contrast to Putin.

    Did any Ukrainians see this metamorphosis coming? Absolutely not and I'm sure not even Zelensky himself knew he was capable of it. But he is playing the role brilliantly and drawing upon all of his life experience to do so.


    He's not the first actor turned politician - Reagan of course being the most prominent example before him. We tend to remember him in his last couple of years in the White House but he was a very effective politician and was named 'the Great Communicator' for a very good reason. Zelensky, although very different in some ways, is cut from a similar pattern. Interestingly, both of them would have been regarded as 'B' actors!



This discussion has been closed.
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