Russia - threadbanned users in OP

cnocbui · 05-02-2023 09:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206032#Comment_120206032

You are mistaken. I am unaware of any weapons shipments to Ukraine that have fallen under the scheme, It's all been free gifts.

Washington does not yet use Lend-Lease in order to save the Ukrainian budget from suffering huge expenses in the future; the US military aid is now being transferred to Ukraine under other programs.

Source: Oleh Nikolenko, spokesperson for the Ministry for Foreign Affairs of Ukraine, in a comment to Hromadske news agency

Details: Nikolenko has explained that the Lend-Lease mechanism implies the fact that the United States of America can transfer their defence equipment to Ukraine for rent or on leasing terms.

Quote: "The advantage of this tool is the speed of decision-making by the U.S. government, according to a simplified procedure, without excessive bureaucracy and the need for votes on each package of aid to Ukraine in the US Congress. The disadvantage is that the volume of supplies of American weapons within the limits of Lend-Lease directly depends on the financial capabilities of Ukraine."

Details: Nikolenko states that at this stage of the war, the USA decides to provide military aid to Ukraine at the expense of their own federal budget, since the insufficiency of aid or its ineffectiveness "will have fatal consequences for the entire free democratic world."

As the spokesperson emphasises, within the framework of the relevant US law on additional appropriations for the support of Ukraine, Kyiv currently receives security and defence assistance under three programs: Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative (USAI), Foreign Military Financing (FMF), and Replenishment of U.S. weapons stocks.

Under these programs, military aid is provided free of charge. That is, the current programs, unlike Lend-Lease, do not provide for compensation from Ukraine for the cost of the handed weapons, military equipment and ammunition.

https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-still-not-received-lend-153111029.html

Biden set up the lend-lease as an insurance policy in the run up to the mid term elections, in case the Republicans won big and then started trying to cut or block aid to Ukraine.

Under lend-lease, Ukraine could have asked for all sorts of things that Biden doesn't want them getting - like F-16 C/D, so to avoid that, he's been giving them stuff free to maintain control over what they get and when, and to preserve their economy. Had Ukraine used lend lease, there could have been F-16s and Abrams M1A2s and Bradley's operating in Ukraine before last Christmas. https://waves-ua.com/en/2022/04/29/57504/

Try another topic for your attempted negativity.

cnocbui · 05-02-2023 09:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206143#Comment_120206143

Ah, but they have been giving it all free.

briany · 05-02-2023 09:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206203#Comment_120206203

Yeah, I read the post above. All the better, then.

Bitcoin · 05-02-2023 09:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120205762#Comment_120205762

That is a shocking decline for one year.

Furze99 · 05-02-2023 09:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120205921#Comment_120205921

Should be rounded up en masse and sent to Russia to do their bit at the frontlines.

Danzy · 05-02-2023 09:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120205809#Comment_120205809

Socialist pric5s.

See that Lula has refused to send Ukraine any ammunition, especially rounds for Leopards and Gepards.

The Biden administration is also concerned about the uptick in meeting between Cuba and Russia, China, and North Korea.

A new successor to the socialist block of the past?

There is a sizeable group of States that will back Russia and China for ideological reasons, for Anti West reasons, for monetary reasons.

There is also a lot of people in Europe who will talk about solidarity,peace, internationalism who are batting for Russia, not as blatantly as the Irps mind.

CalamariFritti · 05-02-2023 10:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206178#Comment_120206178

So you're saying under lend & lease Biden would have to give them anything they wanted. Surely you don't believe your own nonsense.

jmreire · 05-02-2023 10:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206032#Comment_120206032

And not a word against Putins not insignificant efforts to not only fluck up the EU economy, but to physically split it up too.....ie:- Brexit-fashion. A strong and cohesive EU is the source of Putins greatest nightmares.

Say my name · 05-02-2023 11:04PM

A worthwhile endeavor. UK farmers are organising a delivery of 4wds to be driven to Ukraine laden with supplies.

Link in the post for anyone interested or wants to make a donation.

http://twitter.com/pickupsforpeace/status/1618601005368893441

pcardin · 05-02-2023 11:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120205762#Comment_120205762

when week, insecure people are scared or nervous, they eat. food is comforting them. The more scared the more they eat. This fat cnut will eat himself to death, long before Hague tribunal.

saabsaab · 05-02-2023 11:38PM

One of the many mistakes that Hitler made in the east was not allowing his forces to fall back enough or at all. This allowed the Russians to bring up artillary to pound their positions until they were much weakened. Even if they were allowed to, he only allowed a few miles. The Russian artillary could stay put and just adjust range. The best way was to pull most back 25-40 miles to a new suitable position out of range and mine and prepare traps anti tank units dealing with the advancing Russians over the space between. Combined with a tank flank attack at the rright time this could trap the advance forces before they could fully move their artillary into position.

Strumms · 06-02-2023 12:00AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206306#Comment_120206306

He is right to be concerned. Not so much about Cuba…. They are playing a rather fûcking idiotic game. About 160 kilometres off the US south coast. With around 70,000 active personnel, a few subs and boats… I would not imagine it might take a great effort to delete Cuba off the map if it was understood to be conspiring with Russia/China in an attack against the US or US interests.

06-02-2023 12:43AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120205745#Comment_120205745

They have but not the whole of Moldova,yet

Dohnjoe · 06-02-2023 01:09AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206517#Comment_120206517

No idea how you got that view out of the comment. The Ukraine can ask, but it's up to the US to decide what to supply. It's an excellent deal for the Ukrainians, a literal life-saver.

cnocbui · 06-02-2023 02:32AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206517#Comment_120206517

Not anything, just what's on the lend-lease shopping list, part of which is given in the link I included. I haven't read the T&Cs of the lend lease signed, but it would hardly be useful insurance if every request to tap into it could be vetoed.

From the Ukraine side, it is clear their senior ministers believe thay can get what's on the lend-lease menue because back in April when it was signed, they posted the list on a government Telegram channel, saying look at the lovely menu.

But as I said, it was insurance, and Biden wants to stay in control of what Ukraine gets, so lend lease hasn't been used. I am guessing that Biden told them you either get what I am prepared to give for free, or you activate lend lease and you pay for everything. With the total damages bill running at least $750 billion, and Ukraine having enormous immediate costs it's struggling with now, like just repairing the electricity grid, it's not hard to see which is the sweeter and most affordable deal.

The US arms, training, intel and ammo, are all free. Lend lease is not being used.

When I say free, I mean financially, there will likely be a quid-pro-quo cost, but that won't necessarily hurt.

blarney_boy · 06-02-2023 03:26AM

Seeing as we're discussing advanced accountancy and lend lease / long term interest payments, it's time for another shameless plug for Peruns latest video blog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj9HD8MdAFs

A couple of interesting points, when America announces 3 billion dollars in military aid, that's the cost of the equipment in 2022 prices, some of this stuff has been sitting in depots / boneyards for 20 plus years and they're basically delighted to be getting rid of it and it's associated maintenance costs

And for those that are saying, well we're not give aid - in fact it's actually a dept trap for Ukraine. Under the terms of the finance agreements (drawn up by the EU) no interest is due on these aid loans until 2035 and we all know with the current spike in inflation when 2035 comes around 30 billion is probably going to be the average industrial wage! So the loan terms are extremely generous from the 'decadent west'

TLDR: Hail Capitalism / Slava Ukraini

Francie Barrett · 06-02-2023 09:45AM

https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1622487895838797825?t=m4naH82IHNBRqBwOUld3wQ&s=19

Elon Musk continuing to promote Russian disinformation.

Igotadose · 06-02-2023 10:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207275#Comment_120207275

Well, their new muppet didn't last the day yesterday, so the original putinbots have to earn their rubles until the new one shows up. Usually on Thursdays.

wassie · 06-02-2023 10:15AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207261#Comment_120207261

What ever you think of Musk, if it wasnt for his support with Starlink, Ukraine wouldnt have a hope in hell against the orcs.

jmreire · 06-02-2023 10:59AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207317#Comment_120207317

He gives the impression of a very confused individual....he gives massive support to Ukraine with Starlink, as you said and next thing he is spewing out pro Putin propaganda....

astrofool · 06-02-2023 11:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207447#Comment_120207447

I didn't know they had internet under the destroyed Kerch bridge, there is some broken trains and trucks to snack on down there.

Feel free to delete.

odyssey06 · 06-02-2023 11:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207447#Comment_120207447

Strange. Earlier you posted about ww2 yet seem ignorant of the alliance between Fascist Germany and the USSR. Those opposed to democracy on either side of the spectrum have allied before and will do so again. This is another example of it.

NATO arent directly fighting Russia. If they were this war would already be over, either in a conventional defeat for Russia or nuclear defeat for everyone. Nevermind NATO as a whole, Russia would be defeated in short order engaged by two of the US and Poland or Turkey.

There are no NATO forces engaged in the fighting.

You know this yet pretend not to.

06-02-2023 11:23AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207434#Comment_120207434

”the Collective West”+”all of Europe”

Is your poor comprehension representative of typical pro-Russians? Might explain why you are so easily led by gangsters.

Dohnjoe · 06-02-2023 11:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207434#Comment_120207434

Countries known as "Axis" powers at the time, no one refers to them as "the West" or "Western" or "collective West" (which is a term denoting a broad basket of democratic countries)

It's cynical wordplay and semantics for propaganda purposes. The same presenter could use the same disingenuous technique to claim that France was invaded by "the collective West" in 1939, which of course is just as ridiculous.

Francie Barrett · 06-02-2023 11:30AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207439#Comment_120207439

2.5k NATO troops dead is nonsense.

TheValeyard · 06-02-2023 11:30AM

Lads is obviously one of the usuals. Just ignore and let the mods do their work.

Dohnjoe · 06-02-2023 11:43AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207447#Comment_120207447

Many on the fringe far left support Russia indirectly. They find themselves aligned with Putin because of their ultra-cynical views of the West. As a result they mirror Putin's counterfactual talking points, history revisionism, propaganda, disinformation and reframed current affairs. All done under the guise of being "free thinkers", "just asking questions", "providing other viewpoints" and heavy doses of both-sides-ism.

This reply is not for you, just for others who may be wondering why these types keep attempting to create new accounts in this thread.

Wibbs · 06-02-2023 11:47AM

Factually the TV report is a biased nonsense aimed at their all too credulous masses hothoused from birth into an "alternative" history. "All of Europe was on the side of fascist Germany" is so ridiculous a statement it's hard to know where to dive in and take it apart for the nonsense it is.

Operation Barbarossa indeed involved the AXIS forces that you listed(the Finns and Romanians about the only non German forces on the ground), but the same report missed the fact that the hitler had invaded most of the other non AXIS nations in western Europe and was at war with Britain and France. Oh and very conveniently missed the part that nazi Germany had already been at war with Britain and France for two years, a period where the Soviet Union was openly supplying nazi Germany with oil, steel, grain and other resources to prosecute that same war in Western Europe. Never mind agreements between hitler and stalin to carve up Eastern Europe between them. Their mutual invasion of Poland being the obvious one. Never mind that the Soviet Union at one point were in extensive talks with nazi Germany to join the bloody AXIS. No mention of that in this "factual report"

Oh and long before the Austrian corporal came to power the Soviet Union hosted Germany's forces in their territory, so Germany could avoid the military restrictions of the Versaille Treaty and grow their forces off grid, while the Soviets got a mutual benefit from it. Google Kazan Tank school in and the Lipetsk pilot's school and the Treaty of Rapallo. It is highly unlikely that nazi Germany's forces could have gotten to the scale and expertise they got to without the Soviet Union's help. No mention of that in this "factual report"

Oh but the Russian "alternative" history holds that these were all "treaties" like the other Western powers to delay hitler. Did Britain, France, the Low Countries supply Germany's war effort when they were on the march? No. Did they try to join the AXIS forces? No, again. No mention of that in this "factual report"

Also not mentioned in this "factual report" is that without the lend-lease of many millions of tonnes of war materiel and food from the West(the Brits sent them two million army boots but one detail), the Soviet Union would have been in serious trouble, a fact even stalin himself noted and thanked said "West".

So if anyone thinks what the guy on Russian state TV said is factual, they need to read far more books, even hunt down older Russian books that reflect far more of the historical truth. If any are left.

Wibbs · 06-02-2023 12:05PM

"Mighty NATO" isn't being "whipped by orcs". Mother Russia has been embarrassed by a much smaller proxy army of the West, who have only got a tiny percentage of NATO's budget and equipment and that's coming in dribs and drabs. And this isn't asymmetric warfare like Afghanistan and the like, this is two militaries going one on one old style.

If just a single US fleet carrier sailed into the Black Sea it would sink every Russian ship in the area, gain air superiority in weeks if not days and pound the annexed parts of Ukraine into rubble. And the Yanks have ten more of them. Russia kinda has one, but it's in drydock. Again. The only reason Russia has a dog in this fight are their nuclear weapons and nobody, except for a few Russian religious loons wants a nuclear war. That's it. Anything else is illusion.

And yep I can also see Bakhmut falling, likely soon too. Russia needs it for any further offensives and Ukraine have been trying to hold it at all costs because of that. But Russia will likely take it. After how many months? After how many losses? The second mightiest military on earth? And they needed irregulars to do it.

Bass Reeves · 06-02-2023 12:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207501#Comment_120207501

Just another rereg

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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