Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2022 - No PM requests - See Mod note post #1

snowcat · 05-02-2023 7:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120205581#Comment_120205581

Im the same. I can buy parts for less than 4k and getting quotes of 9k plus. I might get into the business myself.

tonysopprano · 05-02-2023 7:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120205581#Comment_120205581

Here are the price of panels in Spain, retail, so deduct VAT and then deduct a commercial/supplier cut to see a real base price. Then upgrade this to all your supplies to see how much you are being screwed. Have a look at the DIY battery forum to see how much you can save by going the DIY route yourself.

Thespoofer · 06-02-2023 7:11am

Quote ,would appreciate opinions.

9kw ground mounted system

( must dig trench myself )

22 panels

3.6kw battery

Hybrid inverter

Hot water diverter

€16,900 before grant.

I'm considering the diy route and having it signed of, with or without grant.

mingkim · 06-02-2023 3:55pm

Would 30 x 380 watt panels , 2 x 6kw invertors,Eddie,all electrical work and signed off for exporting to the grid and installed ready to go be worth 17,000 euro ? ...that's my budget ...no battery at the moment required as I want to do a diy one .I want to put at least 20 panels on the front of the house and ten at the back .I'm trying to go for the biggest I can without giving the installer most of the money.

Any advice appreciated thanks

DC999 · 07-02-2023 1:17pm

Ignoring cost for now. We’re all capped at exporting 6kW unless we pay for an NC7 form and close to a grand for that process with ESBN afaik. Did you know that? You’ll have 11.4kW of panels. And doing nothing means they can only create a max of 6kW. So during the peak summer months, that’s a lot of wasted capacity. Panels simply won’t convert more than 6kW.

You get paid FIT of €200 tax free on units you export (if on a smart meter), then pay tax on the balance. Do you use a heap of electricity each year? Unless you’ve large batteries (which you say you won’t for now) and EVs (that are in the drive during the day) to soak it up, you’ll export a lot. No harm in that of course!! Some hear do have systems that size and run electric heaters in winter and have more than 1 EV. So it deffo makes sense to look at a big system. But takes a little more thought.

Depending on the orientation, you could get ~1.5 times the number of panels to the 6kW output limit. So 8-9kWP (of panels). But the installers would need to confirm the limit or it can kill the inverter.

2) Or do you want to go the route to remove the 6kW ESBN limit?

11.4kW is a heap of panels - good on ya for looking at it.

3) And design wise, you say 20 on the front and 10 on the back. What direction does each face? Asking as on an E/W split you won’t have both orientations producing at full capacity (as sun isn’t hitting both at same time. I’ve 5kWp on an E/W split and don’t see more than ~3.5kW at a time on the best day). Meaning you can have more panels on E/W than south. Versus those on pure South would be getting much high output. South will always produce the most. I’ve NW really, not W and they hibernate from end Sept to maybe March – sun just won’t hit them.

grimeire · 07-02-2023 1:24pm

@mingkim I got qouted not far off your price for similar.

I got 2 prices for East to west systems. Dont have any roof facing south.

16 X 420w jinko panels

JAS hybrid inverter

€11457 excluding grant discount

16 X 417w suntech panels

Huewai hybrid inverter

€12357 excluding grant discount

Prices seems inline what others have been quoted. Is the Huewai inverter worth the extra grand?

Also is this the DIY battery thread people are mentioning? https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118103218#Comment_118103218 If some one could confirm that would be appreciated.

grimeire · 07-02-2023 1:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120205680#Comment_120205680

I dont think a electrian can install as on the grant application they ask for the company to install and you have to select one.

Have a look at the application for the list of companies that can install.

https://mgen.seai.ie/

DC999 · 07-02-2023 2:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211001#Comment_120211001

"Is the Huewai inverter worth the extra grand?" - no, as someone with a Huewai inverter. While it's battery ready, you can only use 2 batteries. A Huawei one and an LG Luna one. That's it. And they are maddddddd expensive. Ok, they are supposed to have less loses than other batteries (due to being high voltage DC) - but I would never make the cost of them back relative to other batteries. Go back a few pages here and there was a long back and forth on it.

grimeire · 07-02-2023 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211182#Comment_120211182

Well thats definitely a game changer. Thank you for the heads up.

Is there inverter you would recommend?

DC999 · 07-02-2023 5:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211890#Comment_120211890

Inverters are all the same judging by what others have said here. They are taking juice from the panels. Installers have preferences (might be to do with availability, pricing, kit they know...). And lot of installers talk about their kit being superior. I got sucked into that sales pitch.

micks_address · 07-02-2023 5:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120212033#Comment_120212033

some like givenergy only work with their batteries.. i have givenergy.. no problems with it but id like the option of trying different batteries/diy

Ginger83 · 07-02-2023 5:45pm

. .

HotSwap · 07-02-2023 11:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211016#Comment_120211016

If you don’t care about the grant and you got / can get an electrician to sign the NC6 application and do the bit of work to wire up and issue a cert for the new circuit that connects your inverter to your consumer unit you’re in the clear in terms of getting up and running and getting paid the FIT.

You need to be aware of some regulations about installing some isolation devices / switches, etc… for safety on the DC side of things that you should do correctly for your own piece of mind more than anything else.

HotSwap · 07-02-2023 11:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211182#Comment_120211182

A huawei inverter shouldn’t cost an extra grand in the first place. A 6kw huawei hybrid costs 1100 plus VAT at either 10% of your an installer or 23% for everyone else.

HotSwap · 08-02-2023 12:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120208438#Comment_120208438

Would like to know the details of the installers plans to get you up and running with 2x6kw inverters that keeps you within the rules of ESB networks.

Do you have 3 phase power? This would allow you 11kw of inverters; and you could use the 10kWh huawei 3 phase unit which is only 1300 plus vat. Which would be a good match for 11.4 Kw of panels. I have a 28 panel setup done this way on our office. This can all be handled via an NC6 application. Maybe you could upgrade your supply to 3 phase and just use one of the phases with your existing install. Then technically you’re all good; even though it’s a bit of a hack and you could hook your inverter to all 3 phases between the meter and your consumer unit.

If you don’t have 3 phase they could also be doing an NC7 application which would allow you 17kw of inverters. 950 euro fee with this route; maybe that is factored into the costs? There is another aspect of the NC7 route that you are eligible for a guaranteed payment of 13.5 cent per exported unit for 15 years. This is currently less than the market rate for the FIT; but that may not always be the case.

Another option is NC5; which allows you to have as much panels / inverters as you want; but with 0 export. So it’s prob not this.

grimeire · 08-02-2023 11:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213556#Comment_120213556

Well the Zappi charger itself is nearly €900 so at least with the grant i am getting 600 back. I will have an electrician doing some work on my place in a few weeks and he said he would fit the charger as long as i supply it. What i can not understand is how the cheapest company is charging me 900 including vat for the car charger and fitting and its the same model Zappi 7kW when i can not find it anywhere for much less than 900. How the heck are they making any money from that? Its a separate quote too than the PV panels so its not like they are marking it down as they are making more money from the PV panels.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120212033#Comment_120212033

Yeah the higher quote i got they are saying the same that their stuff is better and he also said the app for the Huawei inverter is the best. I have a few huawei things so know their apps are usually half decent but not sure what i would ever even need the app for since its just converting power to be stored in a battery. If it means only Huawei batteries then ill forgot about that or ask him for another inverter.

DC999 · 08-02-2023 1:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120214730#Comment_120214730

Check it's the newer version of the Zappi that has the built in 'Hub'. Basically that means it allows multiple My Energie devices to connect (like Eddi). You'll need that so they know which is the master and which gets the excess and how much excess. Without that you need an older standalone 'hub' device from them.

DC999 · 08-02-2023 1:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120214730#Comment_120214730

App for the Huawei inverter is grand, does all you need. But it's not 'the best' whatever the fe3k that waffle means :) I use the login on a browser as easier to read on the computer screen. It's basically a read-only view as you aren't changing inverter configuration. Won't let you export data (need an installer account for that / one with more rights). But can see what you need.

cloughy · 08-02-2023 1:49pm

Are you sure they are charging you 900 for supply and fit, maybe they are taking the grant amount, so it only costs you 900 and they get the 600.

smax71 · 08-02-2023 3:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183126#Comment_120183126

I'm considering running with this quote but wondering if worth adding a 2nd 5.1 dyness for €2.5k? Seems a lot so wondering would it be better to leave and add later DIY if prices came down. Any issues with adding a dyness DIY?

HotSwap · 08-02-2023 5:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215656#Comment_120215656

If you can afford it I would add the extra 5kW of battery if you need it. Just figure out will 5kWh get you from sunset to sunrise or do you need more.

HotSwap · 08-02-2023 6:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215178#Comment_120215178

Create your own installer account on fusion solar portal and request the installer to migrate your “plant” into your account. It’s none of their business accessing your data or controlling access to your equipment once they have completed the install.

smax71 · 08-02-2023 7:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216287#Comment_120216287

My day usage in summer is between 10 and 11kw, increasing to 12 to 14kw during winter. Am I correct in thinking that a 10kwh battery charged overnight plus generation (8.4kwp south facing) should cover majority of daytime needs even during winter?

My nighttime usage is a lot higher with EV and HP as well as timed appliances. During summer its approx 25kw increasing to approx 42kw during winter. Could probably reduce the summer time night usage by load shifting, eg ev, but no choice but to continue on grid for winter nighttime generation.

HotSwap · 08-02-2023 7:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216728#Comment_120216728

Well you need to be careful that you don’t end up charging your cat with the energy you have stored in your battery.

You’re there or there about with the 10kWh for winter daytime. On a bad day you might generate 1kW; on a good day you might generate around 8, so it all depends.

im assuming your on some favourable day / night rate at the moment from the way your taking. Just be careful as that isn’t gonna last forever for you. You will eventually end up on a smart meter with a relatively short window of night time cheep electricity so I would plan with that in mind.

when you throw a heat pump and EV into the mix even a well sized solar array like what your planning seems to be tiny.

I assume the car is always away from home during the day?

smax71 · 08-02-2023 8:15pm

@HotSwap - good point, I'll need to look at zappi settings, I think it can be set up to take charge from grid only but it's not something Im very familiar with.

I'm currently on energia ev plan so nighttime rate is good but of course once contract runs out that will increase substantially. You're right a smart meter plan will be substantially more expensive for me as currently approx 65% of my electricity is on cheap night rate.

At present, the car is at home quite a bit during the day so could be charged by solar during summer, but this may not always be the case.

Rogtronic1 · 08-02-2023 8:17pm

Hi all. I have 3 quotes I'd appreciate some advice on :)

10 x Denim Glass to Glass, Mono Crystalline 400w PV Module (with 35 year warranty)

1 x SolarEdge Inverter (with 12 years warranty)

10 x SolarEdge S440 Power Optimiser (with Arc protection & 25 years warranty)

1 x SolarEdge 10kWh Battery

1 x SolarEdge Import / Export meter

1 x Wi-Fi Kit and Free Monitoring Portal for Life

€19,200 after SEAI Grant

10 x Denim Glass to Glass, Mono Crystalline 400w PV Module (with 35 year warranty)

• 1 x Huawei 5kW Hybrid Inverter (with 12 years warranty)

• 1 x 5kW HV Li-ion Battery (with 10 years warranty)

• 1 x Huawei Import / Export meter

• 1 x Wi-Fi Kit and Free Monitoring Portal for Life

€12,700 after grant

13 x Jinko 415 Watt panels

1 Huawei 5kwh battery

3 kW Huawei Inverter

€14,220 after grant

micks_address · 08-02-2023 8:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215656#Comment_120215656

I only have my system since November and have a 9.5kwh battery. Most days I can get from 8am to 11pm avoiding peak usage. Some days in December I ended up with an empty battery around 7pm. If it rained all day etc.. I'm tempted to add another 5kwh for insurance but it doesn't make financial sense. Let's say that I used 5kwhr at 50 cent kWh for worst case 90 days of the year. The darkest days. That's 225 euro. Would take 10 years for a 5kwhr battery to pay for itself. At which point it probably be dead anyway. I've 4kwp south east, 3 kwp north west hardly generating anything since November Looks like each day it's doing more and by March will do a a lot

HotSwap · 08-02-2023 8:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216986#Comment_120216986

Do you have significant shading issues; are they putting panels pointing in multiple directions? You would be getting a class setup with quote one; but it’s clearly expensive. You will get panel level data about your system; and the battery has great performance in terms of discharge rates (up to 7kwh for short periods of time). Ask for them to specify the capacity of the inverter.

By the looks of it the second quote is from the same supplier? And I note they have not specified the huawei optimisers; so I assume they are not needed on this install. Get them to give you a price for a 10kWh battery. The huawei battery expands in 5kWh modules. So you can expand it easy in the future if you leave enough space. The main difference between the SolarEdge price and this will be that the SolarEdge requires each panel to have an optimiser; where as with huawei it’s optional. Get the price for 10kWh and then at least your comparing like for like. Your discharge rate from the huawei will suffer if you only have a single 5kWh module. Just fyi.

3rd one seems like a different supplier? If they can fit more panels on i’d also be asking quote 1 and 2 to match that number of panels; you want to max you your roof if possible / what you can afford. But they are matching a 3KW inverter with 5.4 kWh of panels; so prob best to avoid them as they seem a bit stupid. For the minor cost increase of going from 3kwh to at least a 5kW or 6kw (you might as well max out your allowance). Your discharge rate would be limited to 3kwh here; which is a major limitation. I’d ask them to up the quote to a 10kWh battery and a 5kW inverter. And then you can compare like for like.

HotSwap · 08-02-2023 9:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217060#Comment_120217060

remember your gonna eventually end up on a smart meter with just a short night rate of just 2hours.

That’s only one side of the calculation. You should also consider in summer getting from sunset to sunrise using only the battery.

let’s say 1st April. Sun sets at 8pm; and doesn't rise till 7am. Can you make it 11 hours with 9.5kWh?

micks_address · 08-02-2023 9:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217244#Comment_120217244

Already on smart meter and charge as much as I can between 2 and 4am.. at 10 cents kWh and 20 for the rest..

micks_address · 08-02-2023 9:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217244#Comment_120217244

Our night usage is about 200 watts per hour. I don't mind paying for that at 20cents kWh for most of it...if I can avoid peak usage and run more washes during the day from solar and cooking etc as we move into spring/summer. At the moment have battery set to only discharge from 8am... To maximise the night rates. I'm thinking I'll let it discharge from 7am in a few more weeks and see how it goes

HotSwap · 08-02-2023 9:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216980#Comment_120216980

Prob just configure the battery to “charge from grid” during the times you know you’re gonna be charging the EV. That way the battery will be trying to charge / hold it’s charge. This works in winter…

In summer when you would typically be wanting to discharge the battery at night maybe it’s ok to dump it all into the car; but maintain enough to cover yourself for the morning breakfast peak incase it’s cloudy.

these are very much 1st world problems :)

HotSwap · 08-02-2023 9:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217260#Comment_120217260

Yeah. It’s a good call holding the charge during off peak.

You could try to get a wash in between 2-4 am also :) and the dishwasher. But in fairness it’s kinda not worth living your life like that. You can only do so much before it starts to have diminishing returns.

if I have a spare bit of cash I’ll defo max out my battery to 15kwh though. Just for the extra ability to not have to micro manage it so much. Maybe that’s where the investment pays off; not finically; but in the fact that you don’t have to be constantly fiddling with settings.

micks_address · 08-02-2023 9:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217262#Comment_120217262

On the zappi i set export margin to 100 watts to avoid using the battery for charging car..

micks_address · 08-02-2023 9:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217327#Comment_120217327

Actually do set the dishwasher and washing machine to 2am starts.. easy enough to do once you get onto the habit.. both have a delay start option. Part of me wants to get the extra battery but at the same time I know it probably doesn't add up from a financial sense.

jkforde · 08-02-2023 11:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217336#Comment_120217336

100W doesn't do it for me, I'm testing 200W at the moment, just waiting for suitable changeable weather to see! do you leave MGL on the Zappi on 100%, it shouldn't matter but this is the Zappi we're talking about, a WIP product (sometimes I feel like a beta tester!)

HotSwap · 09-02-2023 12:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218036#Comment_120218036

What inverter / battery do you have?

jkforde · 09-02-2023 10:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218237#Comment_120218237

Solis RHI-5G, 2 x 2.4 Pylontech, with Eddi v1 (master) and Zappi v2... so if I put Zappi as Priority 1 and Eddi as Priority 2, and Zappi ECO+ MGL on 80% for example, when the Zappi clicks in when there's the required surplus (>1120w), it doesn't seem to respect the 80% MGL when the surplus goes back down (<1120w), it then pulls from the battery up to 1.4kw. I thought setting Export Margin would prevent this but from reading the ME forums, it seems it may be a bug (others are complaining on there). it works fine when Eddi is P1.

HotSwap · 09-02-2023 10:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218753#Comment_120218753

My thinking is that it’s an issue with the battery continually outputting enough so that the zappi continues to think that there is enough excess power to continue charging in eco +.

How many CT clamps do you have feeding into myenergy systems? Just Grid? Or grid and solar?

You can’t have a battery clamp is it’s a DC battery right?

HotSwap · 09-02-2023 10:30am

Sequence of events:

Sun comes out. And your pushing 1121w to the grid.
Zappi clicks in and is charging car with 1121w from solar and 279w from grid.
battery sees 279w coming from grid and attempts to balance it.
sun goes behind cloud you are no longer generating an excess.
battery responds to the fact that you now need 1121w and balances this; but imperfectly; so you are still exporting a bit.

jkforde · 09-02-2023 10:57am

mods, apologies, this little discussion is derailing this thread, feel free to move to troubleshooting or somewhere else..

--------

thanks a lot hotswap, I've just a grid CT+Harvi with separate Hub. issue is that the Zappi, once it has started charging with surplus in ECO+, disregards the grid CT data and keeps charging like its in ECO mode once surplus drops below chosen MGL%.

this does not happen if it never started charging in ECO+, it'll just happily sits there waiting for the MGL surplus and doesn't pull from the battery.

aanyways, a trivial matter in the grand scheme of things!

Blues14 · 09-02-2023 7:11pm

What do people think of this quote

Non-Battery System

5.25kWp of modules

12x Bisol Premium 445w Monocrystalline modules (All black modules)*

Bisol Mounting system on a *Slate Roof (*Price may vary on roof type)

1 x Projoy Fire Safety Switch

AC Switchgear

Sofar 5kWp Inverter

Costing

€8,750 (inclusive of VAT)

-€2,400 (SEAI Grant)

€6,350Final cost after grant incentive

con747 · 09-02-2023 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221076#Comment_120221076

It's in the ballpark based on the guidance.

Charlie 08 · 09-02-2023 9:31pm

1st quote for us:

Battery System (Alpha)

4.5kWp of modules kitted to 10.1kWh battery storage

12 x Bisol Premium 375W Monocrystalline modules (All black modules)*

Bisol Mounting system on a *Slate Roof (*Price may vary on roof type)

1 x Projoy Fire Safety Switch

AC Switchgear

Alpha 5kWp Inverter kitted to 10.1kWh storage capacity

Costing

€13,900 (inclusive of VAT)

-€2,400 (SEAI Grant)

€11,500 Final cost after grant incentive

OPTIONAL EXTRAS

Warranty extension for the Alpha Inverter from 5 years to 10 years (Recommended): €350
Change Over Switch: €1000 (To facilitate the use of the battery system to run your house during a power outage)
Eddi Hot Water Diverter: €650
Zappi Car Charger: €1450

jkforde · 09-02-2023 9:35pm

way too high for a basic 4.5kwp system imho, have you checked back through this thread for other quotes and feedback

graememk · 09-02-2023 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221600#Comment_120221600

Does it include a battery, you said that there was a 10 kwh battery but not listed

con747 · 09-02-2023 10:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221723#Comment_120221723

I imagine it includes one, they say kitted to a 10.1 battery. At that price it's about 1k over so a bit of haggling could get it down.

Charlie 08 · 09-02-2023 10:35pm

I'm presuming it does. Getting back to them again next week so I'll check then.

DC999 · 10-02-2023 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221600#Comment_120221600

Scrap the 'Warranty extension for the Alpha Inverter from 5 years to 10 years (Recommended): €350'. That's high relative to the cost of the inverter. And on this forum I've only seen 1-2 people talk about the inverter dying and needing a warranty replacement in the 6 months I've been here. So 5 year standard warranty is plenty IMO. Use the 350 to get another panel instead.

Rogtronic1 · 10-02-2023 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217152#Comment_120217152

@HotSwap Thanks for the help.

Firstly, yes my roof is all over the place! This image is from a new quote and the pic is oriented with North at the top.

4.4kw (11 panel) Solar Panel System with a 3.6 kwh battery. Canadian Solar all black 400w panels.

The inverter we supply is the Solis 3kw Hybrid

The Battery we will supply is called Dyness, this is a 3.6kwh with a 10-year warranty and 6000 cycles at

90% DoD.

The total cost of the system is €12462.3

€10062 after grant.

Do you have significant shading issues; are they putting panels pointing in multiple directions? You would be getting a class setup with quote one; but it’s clearly expensive. You will get panel level data about your system; and the battery has great performance in terms of discharge rates (up to 7kwh for short periods of time). Ask for them to specify the capacity of the inverter.

As I mentioned I have rooves in all directions! I'll ask for the capacity of the inverter :)

By the looks of it the second quote is from the same supplier? And I note they have not specified the huawei optimisers; so I assume they are not needed on this install. Get them to give you a price for a 10kWh battery. The huawei battery expands in 5kWh modules. So you can expand it easy in the future if you leave enough space. The main difference between the SolarEdge price and this will be that the SolarEdge requires each panel to have an optimiser; where as with huawei it’s optional. Get the price for 10kWh and then at least your comparing like for like. Your discharge rate from the huawei will suffer if you only have a single 5kWh module. Just fyi.

It is the same supplier. The info I was given is they dont sell optimisers for Huawei but you are saying Huawei panels dont need them?

3rd one seems like a different supplier? If they can fit more panels on i’d also be asking quote 1 and 2 to match that number of panels; you want to max you your roof if possible / what you can afford. But they are matching a 3KW inverter with 5.4 kWh of panels; so prob best to avoid them as they seem a bit stupid. For the minor cost increase of going from 3kwh to at least a 5kW or 6kw (you might as well max out your allowance). Your discharge rate would be limited to 3kwh here; which is a major limitation. I’d ask them to up the quote to a 10kWh battery and a 5kW inverter. And then you can compare like for like.

Thanks for the advice here. I wasn't aware the inverter was wrong for the job! I'll do as you say and see how I get on :)

Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2022 - No PM requests - See Mod note post #1

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