Russia - threadbanned users in OP

I don't need understanding, I need ammunition.

Anyone going for option 3, stepping stone to rest of Europe, must be tooting crack.

More Russian threats

The pro orc camp would have you believe that there is some huge artillery advantage that the Ukrainians have no hope against, but that simply isn't true.

Plenty of evidence out there of Ukrainian laser guided shells landing with pinpoint accuracy and smoking the unhappy orcs and their tanks. Most of the orc shelling seems to just end up blowing holes in random fields.

You also must remember that Ukraine are likely keeping some shells back for the forthcoming offensives.

orcs by their own admission lost 50% of their elite troops by September.

Figure is probably 80-90% by now and they are all replaced by conscripts.

Do people really think that a bunch raw untrained mobiks are going to even be able to take Bakhmut, let alone the rest of Donbass?

I misspoke. I meant to say this is Putin's plot to destroy Russia. A Russian woman, being interviewed recently, was asked how she thought the war was going. She said if it is meant to destroy Russia, it is going well.

Just saw that, A grim comment.

what’s the true intention..?

attack the EU ? US ? Both ? The likelihood if it’s a true threat, it is something nuclear… as the Russians ain’t invading the EU…

personally with a threat of that manner, why not hit the Russians with something nasty first ?

really can’t see a deescalation from where we are at… now. Putin is hell bent on WW3. He’s nutsville.

The Ukraine might very well be just the beginning to a very grim and depressing time..

In fact Putin has just commented…

“Those who hope to defeat Russia on the battlefield do not understand, it seems, that a modern war with Russia will be very different for them," the 70-year-old leader said. 

"We are not sending our tanks to their borders, but we have the means to respond. It won't be limited to the use of armoured hardware. Everyone must understand this." 

Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov declined to elaborate on Mr Putin's comments, but did tell reporters that "as new weapons are delivered by the collective West, Russia will make greater use of its potential to respond". 

the EU should just let events transpire. The Ukraine have done SFA for the EU or it’s citizens aside from looking for handouts, now it’s seemingly on the cusp of dragging us all into WW3 and the nut job Putin is capable.

what did western leaders, think was going to be Putins reaction, by gifting the Ukranians, tanks, arms, training, equipment and money ?

they are acts of war, facilitating and equipping the enemy….! Or will certainly be seen as acts of aggression by Russia, so…..

WWIII ? Getting ever closer…if comments are to be genuine.

Thunder Birds are GO...

boom boom boom someone is going to shake someone's room. The US might consider this before an F16. The Russians would not like to see them in the Ukraine that is for sure.

I've been reading Eliot Higgin's book. He's the founder of Bellingcat - an organisation who have pushed the boundaries when it comes to unravelling mysteries through the use of open source intelligence and rigorous fact-checking. They've consistently been a thorn in the sides of state actors trying to push falsehoods and lies, particularly Russia and the Assad regime in Syria.

Here's an interesting passage where he discusses the kinds of people who reflexively back up these state actors online. He collectively refers to them as the "Counterfactual Community". It's one of the best descriptions I have seen of a group of people who we're all too familiar with on this thread.

Let me put it this way, I can't imagine the US requiring Germany or France's help to protect Mexico from an invasion from Guatemala or Honduras, the burden of securing stability for western democracy is overwhelmingly held by the US. This is just a regional issue for the US not their highest priority even, it is on europe's doorstep, yet the notional amount of aid and intelligence supplied by the US again is far greater than any european nation, and its on their doorstep(just to reiterate again). It's one thing letting your friend do most of the work for you, it's another resenting him for doing it and not changing your behavior.

Strumms, if the West / US/ UK etc. had not stepped in when they did,( which was just in time to save it, BTW) what would be the state of Ukraine now? Putin understands one thing , and one thing only, and that's a massive military response each and every time. Appeasement or acceptance only spurs him on to even more aggressive behavior. This has been well proven in multiple cases, Georgia and Crimea being but 2. Had the world stepped in back then, Ukraine might never have happened. Now, Putin must be fought to the bitter end. Its the only way, regardless to cost.

Russia sees itself as an enemy of the EU and it has EU nations in its sights - Poland, Baltics etc - and Ukraine are bleeding them dry.

It is not in the EU's interest to have instability on its borders as Russia destabilises and invades any non-aligned country it sets it sights on.

To state all they have done is look for handouts is entirely without merit or foundation. It's absolutely absurd nonsense. Offensively wrong. It is an opinion not based on facts or evidence.

The reason why weapons etc were sent to Ukraine was to deter an invasion, not to provoke it. To prevent Russia from a coup d'etat lightning strike to take Ukraine, and that the cost would be huge if they tried. And the damned Russian fools went ahead in any way.

Russia signed an agreement, Budapest Agreement, with Ukraine. Which was also signed by US, UK, France.

What did Russia think the West's reaction would be when it violated that agreement?

Why is Ukraine automatically an enemy of Russia? You state it, but if you take a step back there's absolutely zero reason why they should be.

The EU signed a political treaty with Ukraine. The mere act of trying to sign that treaty put Ukraine into Russia's camp of enemies.

So the EU now has a responsibility to assist them.

Your post is based on an entirely flawed premise, because it only assigns agency to the West and not to Russia.

Well, for sure, I'd much prefer to see thousands of Ukrainian refugees roaming around Europe than thousand's of Putins military. But thats just me. If you think that having thousands of Ukrainian refugees in the EU, and of course Ireland, is not good,then just google Roderick O'Gormans plans to broaden the asylum definitions to cover People fleeing climate change world wide.

Why did the EU sign a trade and political treaty with Ukraine?

The EU is already involved.

The balance sheets confirm no such thing because your post is based in an entirely flawed premise. It is not determined by the balance sheet.

By that standard what had Ireland ever done for the EEC when we tried to join? Nothing. How long was it before we were a net contributor instead of a recipient of huge aid transfers from Brussels?

A totally flawed premise.

The EU is about more than the current balance sheets.

Ukraine is owed help from the EU because it was attacked in part for trying to join the EU.

The EU has a moral responsibility to assist it. It cannot stand idly by.

Ukraine has never just looked for handouts. They have looked for a future in the EU and are dying for it and paying for it in blood. An EU that will be stronger with Ukraine in it.

Or else why would EU have signed the treaty with Ukraine.

For you to turn around in Ireland and slam them as only looking for handouts is morally and intellectually bankrupt with overtones of kneejerk anti refugee tropes.