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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,829 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Yes, but he manner in which they are to be engaged to ensure defeat ? The manner in which that becomes actively necessary ? All big questions with no obvious answers ! Who defeats Russia and what manner is enacted to achieve it ? War ? Because World War III won’t see anything in the way of conventional warfare….WWIII is a nuclear event….

    Ukrainians bouncing around European countries indefinitely getting housing, cash and a myriad of supports from foreign governments / taxpayers isn’t practical, realistic or reasonable or fair for and on EU citizens.. people of the EU are fed up, it’s not even been one year. It can’t / shouldn’t continue much longer..but … Russia….

    there comes a time when western leaders will need to shît or get off the pot…. Putin has threatened the US and Europe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,355 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I dont really know what you expect from the Biden administration, you might judge a book by it cover but the actions of the administration have basically saved Ukraine from ruin. So I don't really understand where the lack of confidence comes from.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    The West can just keep pumping military hardware and money into Ukraine indefinitely. There is absolutely no reason for them to stop doing that whilst Ukraine still stands. If Ukraine falls to Russia then what happens next could be interesting as it might not result in Western forces marching into Ukraine to free it immediately, but that is a very very long way from happening and Ukraine has all the military hardware flowing in (they obviously want more, but the flow won't be stopping).


    For the west the best result is a Russian revolution and Putin strung up by the citizens, but that is a long way off as well. The best method of defeating Russia for the west is for Russia to just run out of military forces. They don't want to directly defeat them on the battlefield, although that would be a relatively simple task if it came to that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 205 ✭✭NeutralHandle


    It's interesting that the use of a pejorative here is accepted.

    Of course rules about such things would be petty in Ukraine right now. But this isn't Ukraine and I doubt the people using it here are Ukrainian.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 287 ✭✭dennis72


    Will Russia run out, the way its throwing bodies into the fight, NK & Iran supplying ammo and it public support compliant through its very successful anti-western propaganda machine.

    I can see Russia continuing to level a sovereign country town by town if we can't have it no1 can which is a massive putin made humanitarian crisis.

    Will China take a chance on Taiwan while using Russia as a distraction?

    An unreliable source that China is supplying weapons is worrying.

    Ukraine its the now goto for testing systems

    Tough decisions needed sanctions do nothing, democracy is under attack.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What pejorative?

    Are you referring to a pejorative against child raping, murdering Russian military? What sensitivities are you worried about regards war criminals?

    Can you write a 10,000 word essay as to why pejorative’s are not deserved?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hi Dennis,

    Thanks for sharing your concerns. Yes, while Russia is levelling countries that country will continue to get Western support, because the civilised world realises living under such a regime is the worse option, and is the best solution to contain such barbarity.

    Has the last Ukrainian died defending their country from a hellish invasion, no. But the West will outlast Putin’s Russia. That’s crystal clear.

    China’s economy is in trouble. Cutting themselves off from the West won’t be risked. There was the beginning of the Chinese having a backbone over covid restrictions. What will they do if their economy collapses?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Your first paragraph- whatever is necessary.

    Re what about nuclear war? That’s been there since the 60’s. BTW, if Russia invaded non NATO Ireland would you be okay with the rest of the world looking the other way? Assuming you are Irish? Allowing nuclear powers do what they want is a slippery slope.

    As for resources helping those fleeing Russian barbarism - well, could the Mask slip any more?


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64470092



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 205 ✭✭NeutralHandle


    Plenty of non-war criminal russians have been forced to go there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭Rawr


    I feel China had a window to try for Taiwan last year, but were likely waiting to see how things went with Ukraine. If Putin's 3-day war went according to plan, I think they may have tried for it.

    However, as Whospers mentions, China don't want to cut themselves off from the world economy by doing that, nor would they want to risk damaging the valuable semi-conductor plants that are there. It's valuable as a political sabre to rattle, but unless / until Taipei choose to peacefully surrender to Beijing, they probably dare not try.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If they apply to Boards.ie for exemption to the pejorative we can assess their exclusion from said pejorative.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Yes, there are 10’s of millions of Russians who either support Putin and Russia’s actions, or don’t support him but won’t stand up to him and protest. The war is on their heads. When the population say enough is enough and remove Putin, they won’t be sent to Ukraine.

    No matter what kind of government a country has, it is the people they allow it stay in power.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 205 ✭✭NeutralHandle


    You make it sound easy. Plenty of high profile Russians couldn't stay in Russia after voicing dissent, or were imprisoned for it. Certainly those without such profiles must encounter as bad or worse fates.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭rolling boh


    There is zero chance it seems that the Russian people are going to revolt all wishful thinking a big worry I had along has been the sheer numbers that Putin can keep throwing at Ukraine. We are seeing that is paying off a little bit so as Putin has no concern for the lives of others he will keep sending them in .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 205 ✭✭NeutralHandle


    I don't know any Russians at all. I just think it's objectively interesting that a pejorative term for a group of people is currently considered acceptable. That's not propaganda or the product of it.

    Perhaps calling them orcs doesn't help them feel like they can escape to a safe and welcoming place. Perhaps it in fact feeds the actual propaganda that we, as westerners, want to destroy them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 205 ✭✭NeutralHandle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,621 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    They cant keep it up indefinitely - they can only supply what they have in near operational order.

    The west has not mobilised for war, it doesnt have a war economy capable of replacing half the stuff sent in a timely fashion let alone boosting stocks above pre-war levels.


    However, Kyiv’s insatiable demands are emptying stores at an alarming rate and outstripping capacity to replenish them. With the post-cold war peace dividend and then the shift to more nimble expeditionary warfare, governments have allowed inventories to dwindle despite a Nato benchmark, set in 2014, to stockpile a month’s ammunition for high-intensity combat. Some, like Germany, have supplies for a few days at most.


    Years of lean, stop-start procurement have curtailed the defence industry’s capacity to ramp up production in an emergency. As FT analysis has shown, sophisticated weapons systems such as Javelin anti-tank missiles or Himars guided rockets can take at least a year to manufacture and involve complex production chains with multiple suppliers, each of them a potential bottleneck. The situation is particularly acute for artillery munitions. At the height of the slugfest across the front lines last summer, Ukraine’s army was firing an estimated 7,000 shells a day, a fortnight’s worth of maximum US production. Ukraine has only a few friendly central European suppliers for its 152mm Soviet standard shells. The continuing shift to Nato standard artillery and 155mm shells will only increase the burden on western suppliers. Russia is also thought be suffering shell supply problems, but it has a vast defence industry that it can put on a war footing.

    Every weapon sent to Ukraine is one that needs replaced, and the replacement process could take years and years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 205 ✭✭NeutralHandle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,332 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    I know (from past posts) you don't like all these Ukrainian refugees mooching off you (as the EUs key taxpayer!) .

    However do you want Ukraine supported or not?

    It's going to cost money to help either way (paying for weapons, and/or paying to support refugees that the Russian military drive out of the country).

    Anyway, you don't pay all this tax personally Strumms and Ireland is really a pretty minor contributor to the EU budget that was a recipient of funds for many decades (not that that matters really, I think such arguments are pretty reductive and stupid most of the time). Afaik Irish govt. has also insisted that our EU contributions to Ukraine cannot be spent on "lethal aid" in any case.

    I am happy to see the EU supporting Ukraine (refugee support, financial aid, and paying for weapons) + am sure there's more of us than there are of you with the every Euro is a prisoner attitude.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    A rising of the people may come with some deaths, but they have to grow a pair at this stage. They have become complicit in everything going on in Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭rolling boh


    Russia is such a vast area that a couple of hundred thousand deaths would be a tiny amount particularly if they come from far flung regions .As in most of these wars it's the poor that are sent in as cannon fodder not the better connected from the big cities . We all know if a lot of these soldiers came from places like Moscow some internal unrest would be more likely .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 205 ✭✭NeutralHandle


    They've had two violent revolutions in the last hundred years or so, right? One was by the army against Gorbachev for being too liberal. That failed and led to regime change in the opposite direction. [I'm open to correction with this?] The other was by the Communists, which succeeded and led to the formation of the USSR. Which was not really ideal. So they don't have a great track record when it comes to violent revolutions having the effects they want. Besides, most of them do drink the kool aid, so they wouldn't even have popular support.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,295 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Many Nato countries are already starting to replenish there materials. Bar the more technical artillery systems and the newer MBT's most of the equipment being supplied to Ukraine were going into storage or in storage like the Bradley's.

    The Challengers being supplied by the British were about to start an upgrade to change the Cannon on them rifled to smoothbore. Many of the other MBT's they are getting are ex Soviet tanks that are upgraded. Most ammunition has a use by date a d would be replaced anyway.

    If Military budgets in these countries are risen by 5-10% they will cover the materials used. In the US they will just redirect production away from systems not being used ( Navy and Air force) to land force weapons.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Far too many are dying for that to be true. Where did the Soviet Afghan soldiers come from. It’s acknowledged that those deaths made a difference.

    It’s a bit like that money joke.

    Soon, these tens of thousands of deaths are going to start being meaningful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,574 ✭✭✭rogber


    Zelensky was elected on an anti corruption platform and was considered to be doing a poor job at delivering what he promised, which is why he had terrible ratings before the war broke out. A lot of these corrupt people being weeded out have obviously thrived for years including under Zelensky's government, let's not pretend otherwise.

    As a war leader he's been brilliant, but rosy eyed revisionism shouldn't portray him as a brilliant peacetime leader before that.

    Still, it's good to see action being taken now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,189 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    As if to prove your point I find it amazing how many of those questioned in the 1420 YouTube channel give the reply of " I'm apolitical" or " I'm not into politics so I don't think about it". It's real head in the sand fingers in the ears stuff. While their "army" is raping and pillaging their neighbouring country. If they're not brainwashed, then they are cowards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,313 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Over-egging the pudding there mate.

    Industrial and economic capacity in the West and NATO is far far superior to Russia.

    Russia has to go to the begging pool for economic powerhouses such as Iran and North Korea!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 205 ✭✭NeutralHandle


    I think the general population in Russia is pretty powerless. The best bet is if the elites turn on him. Therefore the best strategy is to give the elites good reason to. However I understand that this group largely owe their power and money to Putin, depend on him, and are not immune to being harmed by him.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,012 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The oligarchs can't do much against the GRU and internal security, who are the ones really running the show over there. People are falling out of windows at the rate of knots and there's a reason for that



This discussion has been closed.
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