General Rugby Discussion 3

sydthebeat · 17-01-2023 12:59pm

scotland 6 nations squad to be announced today at 1pm

Ben Healy is "expected" to be included.

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1615309516177920000?s=20&t=E4f3tH8Uyvl3uxmgoTGLEQ

Pudsy33 · 17-01-2023 2:31pm

Indeed he is. Are Russell and Kinghorn the only other recognised 10s?

Quin_Dub · 17-01-2023 2:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120119940#Comment_120119940

Yes..

Adam Hastings is injured which is where Healy gets his chance.

Assuming everyone is fit I think he'll be doing very well to make a match day squad this time around to be honest.

sydthebeat · 17-01-2023 3:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120120029#Comment_120120029

i think his best chances of making a match day squad is if russell goes on the beer.

having kinghorn either on the pitch or on the bench negates the need for a specialist 10 in the 22 shirt.

Former Former Former · 17-01-2023 5:19pm

I see that Scotland have named Ruaridh McConnochie who played in the 2019 RWC for England. Will be interesting to see how this rule change plays out over the next few months.

Quin_Dub · 19-01-2023 3:00pm

RFU confirm waist high tackling for amateur rugby across England

The RFU have said: “Tackles must be made at the line of the waist and below” with an aim to “put players’ heads in the safest possible place by defining in law where the line of the tackle may start.”

A statement reads: “Designed to improve player safety and informed by data, this change aims to reduce head impact exposure and concussion risk in the tackle for both the ball carrier and tackler. Evidence from studies has consistently demonstrated that higher contact on the ball carrier and closer proximity of the ball carrier and tacklers’ heads are associated with larger head impacts (as measured by smart mouthguards) and an increased risk of concussion.

“Lowering the height of the tackle and encouraging the tackler to bend more at the waist will minimise the risk of this occurring while maintaining the tackle as an integral part of the game.

Interesting to see if other countries follow suit.

Will be incredibly difficult to referee I feel.

Whatever about changing the law at underage before habits have formed , this is a huge change for adult rugby.

How do you defend against a front-on attacker without getting kicked in the head more often than not?

sprucemoose · 19-01-2023 8:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129427#Comment_120129427

if theres an actual evidence-based reason for this then fair enough

otherwise just a strict and zero tolerance application of current laws would be sufficient - way too much leeway is given currently with mitigation etc,, if you make contact with the head then youre off, should be as simple as that in 99% of cases

Lost Ormond · 19-01-2023 8:16pm

Posted it in the laws thread. dont think it will change things enough and would prefer a stricter application of current laws and changes to how teams are coached around certain issues than stopping all tackles above waist

AbusesToilets · 19-01-2023 9:20pm

How would you square that law with defenders trying to stop a pick and go for try? Seems like an impossible situation

RichieRich_89 · 20-01-2023 3:59am

Seems very dangerous. Tacklers are the ones who get concussed more.

Quin_Dub · 20-01-2023 12:08pm

There does seem to be universal uproar about it in England - No consultation with clubs etc.

It just doesn't make sense to implement it like this.

Completely changes the game -

No more mauls other than those formed from a lineout.

Next to impossible to defend a 5 yd tap penalty, or do you also penalise the attacker for "running low" ?

Does that make a lineout "sack" illegal now?

There are so many scenarios that be impossible to defend against or where their removal from the game nullifies the entire core of the game.

I've been coaching and refereeing for a very long time and I can confidently say that the VAST majority of concussion events that I have witnessed in the Amateur Club game are from guys getting their heads on the wrong side and taking a knee to the head.

A very very small number came from direct contact to the head via a high contact.

I can see this being reversed.

pickarooney · 20-01-2023 12:20pm

Unless they implement a basketball-style rule where if the defender remains completely still and the attacker runs into him it's a defensive penalty, I don't see how you can prevent teams picking-and-going with impunity. Ruck a metre out, player picks and goes low... how do you prevent a try?

Even with the current laws it's illegal to do it most of the time, but tolerated. Who'd be a ref, expected to deal with this with no notice or discussion?

sydthebeat · 20-01-2023 12:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133392#Comment_120133392

to make it all the worst... the last time they trailled this they saw a 67% INCREASE in concussions.

Quin_Dub · 20-01-2023 12:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133463#Comment_120133463

I also see lots of High Profile Pro players coming out against it.

And like you said - It didn't go well the last time they did this..

Clegg · 20-01-2023 1:09pm

Kurtley Beale has been arrested and charged with 'sexual intercourse without consent'. Utterly rotten man.

https://twitter.com/9NewsAUS/status/1616330944851345409?t=xbz16ynNfw8Xc1HyUh857A&s=09

pickarooney · 20-01-2023 1:46pm

Is that different from rape somehow?

Quin_Dub · 20-01-2023 2:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133845#Comment_120133845

Assume that just the legal specific term in Australia.

If guilty should never see a pitch again.

stephen_n · 20-01-2023 8:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120134058#Comment_120134058

If found guilty I assume he would be too old to ever play again one way or the other.

Dave_The_Sheep · 23-01-2023 8:50pm

Some rather unsavoury stories coming out about the WRU. I believe there's a BBC Wales programme tonight on it all, but it's all pretty disgusting.

Wales rugby: Former women's boss says colleague made rape jibe

Welsh rugby: 'Ticking timebomb' equality warning to bosses

Wales Online (I know) "reporting" that Gatland said he wasn't really aware of the story, but that there were two sides to every story when asked about the allegations.

Quin_Dub · 24-01-2023 11:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120147850#Comment_120147850

Those reports are not good at all.

Very very poor indeed if that stuff is true.

pickarooney · 24-01-2023 11:23am

This is absolutely chilling

Another female former WRU employee, a mum of one, said she wrote a manual for her husband in case she killed herself.

Imagine doing that and going back into work?

sydthebeat · 24-01-2023 11:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149723#Comment_120149723

sweet divine jesus !!!!

aloooof · 24-01-2023 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149723#Comment_120149723

Jesus.... that's horrific....

27-01-2023 4:09pm

Benetton have suspended their prop Ivan Nemer, an Argentinian born 11 times capped Italian international as the guy who gifted Cherif Traore with the rotten banana as part of the Secret Santa prank.

His suspension runs to the end of the season.

sydthebeat · 27-01-2023 4:28pm

Good

iffandonlyif · 31-01-2023 12:14pm

I had a look at the World Cup draw and saw that Ireland are arguably better off coming second in their group. If they win it they play the loser of France and NZ in the QF, whereas they (likely) play England if second. Can anyone tell me if there’s a discussion about this in the sub?

Pudsy33 · 31-01-2023 12:34pm

They will play France or New Zealand regardless, there is no way they meet England in the QF

iffandonlyif · 31-01-2023 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181594#Comment_120181594

Ah, my mistake. That simplifies matters.

Quin_Dub · 31-01-2023 4:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181594#Comment_120181594

One of the awesome benefits of locking the rankings years in advance of the actual tournament.

The top 4 teams in the world all on the same side of the draw so that 2 of the top 4 will be gone before the QF stage.

Basically , if England or Australia get their act together they have a virtual stroll to the Semi-finals at least.

Jump_In_Jack · 31-01-2023 8:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182723#Comment_120182723

2 of the top 4 will be gone after the quarter final stage, not before it

Jump_In_Jack · 31-01-2023 8:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181490#Comment_120181490

If we win the pool we’ll play the 2nd placed team in Pool B, probably Nee Zealand,

Then if we win we’ll face the winner of pool D vs the runner up of pool C. Since England will probably top pool D, there’s a good chance we would face them in a semi-final.

The alternative would be to come second in the pool, face First place probably France, then the winner between probably Australia vs Argentina.

Neither route would be any easier than the other really.

Best to go out to win every match and forget about what the draw is.

AbusesToilets · 15-02-2023 11:32am

Very real chance that the Welsh players go on strike to protest the appalling mishandling of contracts and financial affairs by the WRU. It would be nice if players from other nations showed some solidarity with the Welsh. Absolute shambolic treatment of the professional game by the WRU and a pretty desperate and vulnerable position to leave players in.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/i-cant-apply-for-a-mortgage-and-im-on-antidepressants-wales-threaten-six-nations-strike-over-contract-dispute-42342493.html

StevenToast · 15-02-2023 11:37am

Gatland must be wondering what sort of shìtshow he came back to....

Brutal on and off the pitch....

Welsh rugby is in the shìtter.....

Former Former Former · 15-02-2023 11:43am

In fairness to the WRU, all we know is that the financial deal has not been signed. It may well be the regions who are refusing to agree to it.

Awful mess regardless.

Dave_The_Sheep · 15-02-2023 11:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243079#Comment_120243079

Gatland is and was a part of it all. He was the WRU hired coach from 2007-2019 and is back again now. This is chickens coming home to roost for him too.

VinLieger · 15-02-2023 11:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243128#Comment_120243128

Yup seeing many Welsh fans blaming Gatland for this in the first place.

Quin_Dub · 15-02-2023 12:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243100#Comment_120243100

Everything about the WRU is a shambles.

They are really in a massive hole right now.

A clearly toxic culture & work environment in the administration , appalling financial planning/management and a complete failure to create any kind of rugby structure to develop the regions and players.

Hard to see any kind of short term improvement, anything that's needed is a 5+ year effort.

Have to have sympathy with the Wales based players - none of them have any kind of security or clarity about their jobs and their futures.

Hearing that International players can't get mortgages and are struggling with their mental health is awful - These are supposed to be elite athletes doing something they love..

15-02-2023 12:28pm

Wales could quite quickly find themselves in the same bracket as Italy if things keep going as they are. Wales obviously have a recent history of success and a track record as a top tier side but the challenges facing them are very significant.

The WRU clearly has a major governance issue. The decision makers appear to be self interested, problematically old school and intractable. It would appear that a major restructure of personnel is required but people don't step off the gravy train voluntarily. Their acting CEO has a decent background but realistically a full clear out is in order and a complete operational rethink needs to happen at all levels of the game in Wales.

The governance issues have leeched into everything at this stage and are directly impacting both the regions, the national team and indeed juvenile development. All three are at an almost historically low ebb concurrently and there is potential for a complete collapse with the u20's now a non entity, the regions sitting at the bottom of the URC and the national team potentially about to go on strike before their biggest fixture.

With England at home and then Italy and France away there is a real risk her of 0 wins from 5. Whilst that would be a disaster - it might also be a catalyst for some hard decisions to be made.

Astonishing reading the last 24 hours in relation to the contracts, lot's of players being very public about their concerns. Absolutely dire situation.

Blut2 · 15-02-2023 12:34pm

You'd really feel for the players putting their bodies on the line for such uncertainty, thats an awful situation for them.

The WRU is an absolute disaster by all accounts. They need to bring in actual qualified business people instead of people who used to be good at rugby to reform the whole system. And, in all likelihood, probably disband one of the regions, on top.

This struck me as one thing outside of their control though: "when the WRU took a £20million loan from the Welsh Government. The money was handed out to the regions and without it, they would not have survived. But each of Dragons, Cardiff, Ospreys and Scarlets have to repay their £5m share over 20 years with an annual interest of 10 per cent."

At a time when interest rates were 0% is this not the Welsh government deliberately screwing over the WRU? 10% is an insane interest rate, thats going to be very difficult to get out from under.

15-02-2023 12:50pm

10%??

What in the name of god. That'll about double the amount they're repaying over the 20 years.

sydthebeat · 15-02-2023 12:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243304#Comment_120243304

i hope thats a simple interest rate and not compound !!

Quin_Dub · 15-02-2023 1:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243413#Comment_120243413

Don't think it will make much difference.

They are screwed.

They are talking about the 4 regions having a budget of £4.5M per year and for the majority of players to be on "variable" contracts - Meaning a low base salary and then the rest being based on number of games played etc. According to the reports most players will have a base salary of between 30-100k per year.

Most of them currently have playing squads of ~50 plus however many coaches and support staff, maybe another 20/25 people.

£4.5M divided by 70/75 people does not go very far at all

Such a tiny budget will mean much smaller squads which means more games for the players and with their salaries being based on the number of games played , players will feel obliged to play as much as possible to ensure they make enough money.

Player welfare will be out the window - Any half decent player will be gone overseas - A regional player would probably earn more playing in Pro D2 in France than they would turning out for the Dragons or the Scarlets.

15-02-2023 1:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243602#Comment_120243602

If this is accurate then I can't see any situation whereby they retain all four provinces - the model you describe isn't sustainable and anyone capable of making the Welsh 23 will almost certainly be playing outside of Wales.

There are no good solutions here.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 15-02-2023 3:00pm

At the moment the wru subsidise the regions to a combined tune of 23 million a year with the current deal expiring this year.

They are now offering a 5 year deal with 28 million in year 1 and 18 million a year thereafter.

The principality premiership gets 4 million in subsidies while the amateur game gets about 12 million which mainly goes in boot money at j2 to j5 levels.

Blut2 · 15-02-2023 3:12pm

Boot money is a huge problem in Wales. Lots of the clubs try to poach each others players with ever increasing amounts of it, so its just become an arms race to spend it. And the vast majority of the guys it goes to would be playing either way without it, all it does is move them from club to club. It'd be much better off invested in facilities and/or coaching.

pickarooney · 15-02-2023 3:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243640#Comment_120243640

Is this the opportunity they've been looking for to join the premiership? Kill off two clubs and replace Worcester/Wasps with the other two?

15-02-2023 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244133#Comment_120244133

Wasn't there an article or something recently where it was abundantly clear that premiership rugby had zero interest in Welsh teams?

Quin_Dub · 15-02-2023 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244076#Comment_120244076

Which again speaks to the utter lack of professionalism (and deep seated cronyism) in the WRU.

Boot money gets killed off with decent budget oversight - Clubs receiving funding from the WRU should have to submit certified accounts to show how it is being spent - If it's on boot money then they don't get any money next season.

But given that the WRU is controlled by those very same "amateur" clubs that are paying the boot money , nothing gets done.

Having been involved in club administration here I know that every penny received from either Branch or Union level has to be accounted for in minute detail and is typically only received after making an application for a specific item like rugby equipment or facilities improvements , there's just no way that IRFU money gets to be spent on boot money here.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 15-02-2023 5:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244407#Comment_120244407

Premiership rugby CEO more or less stated it being interviewed by a commons select Committee after collapse of Worcester and Wasps.

lawrencesummers · 15-02-2023 5:53pm

It looks now like the welsh teams need the english and the english need the welsh, but thats not looking at every aspect of the equation.

General Rugby Discussion 3

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