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Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Posts: 1,640 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And, as I edited above,

    The Dept of Education defines bullying as "unwanted negative behaviour, verbal, psychological or physical, conducted by an individual or group against another person (or persons) and which is repeated over time".

    I think Burke's behaviour could be described as psychological bullying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,988 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    This is going around in circles so I'll leave it after this.

    What Burke did is not on. He's acted the boll1x and I'm fine with the punishment meted out to him. Yes, he's been a bigot and he's acted appallingly but he hasn't bullied the kids.

    He told the Principal ......................... well, we don't know for sure exactly what he said but it's been reported that it was along the lines of that he would never call a boy a girl etc. He's said the same in Main Street, Castlebar, outside the Dail and anywhere else he can get publicity. Has he bullied the people of Castlebar, or our TD's etc.? No, he hasn't.

    While he has behaved badly, I don't think his behavour could be called bullying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,797 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    Are all 10 of the kids evangelical Christians? It would be a bit unusual if some of them didn't have other ideas once they became adults.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    And just because you dont call it bullying, it has been pointed out here numerous times that bullying comes in different forms - it doesn't have to be verbal; intimidation, psychological, coercive behaviours (I'm not saying Enuch has done that) are recognised officially as forms of bullying. You are splitting hairs; think of the children - we all hated attending school at some stage or anther, imagine being them today - facing into that intimidation in the morning. It is bullying and its outrageous



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    I'm sure I heard Enuch say in an interview something about paying a mortgage? He may have a property and that would make sense, cos him and daddy are not driving 2 hours each way after a day of standing outside.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,350 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The Court can certainly seize physical assets, but he probably doesn't have any.

    Can they seize savings in a bank account?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    It was bullying. You can't be a bigot without bullying.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭Karppi


    If that's the Ms De Brún from Derry Girls, that's ok with me!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,570 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Some skill you have, overriding what a bunch of people have stated they feel with the opinion of someone who has absolutely nothing to do with it.



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  • Posts: 2,264 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    In fairness to Burke he can now truthfully claim that, as a teacher, he's been out standing in the school.



  • Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭ Magnolia Hissing Youth


    no, but I believe they can freeze his accounts.

    Maybe that’s limited to CAB though I’m not sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,651 ✭✭✭happyoutscan




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,763 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    I don't think there's any need for that, really



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,894 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    I think they are all still 'in' at the moment. It will be interesting to say the least if/when one of them decides to leave and tells all about their upbringing and the background to the various campaigns.

    Also whilst people talk, completely incorrectly imo, about money that Enoch and the family might make from USA bible-belt support, the actually decent money will be for the first child (especially if it's one of the girls) to leave the family and re-invent themselves as a normal member of society. That's the stuff of steady reality TV income on the RTE/TV3 circuit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    They seem to be, by all accounts. They never had a chance really. Unusual is right but then that's indoctrination for ya.



  • Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭ Magnolia Hissing Youth


    Nothing unusual at all about it. They’ve been raised to believe the only way is they Burke way pretty much. I’m sure the mother wasn’t one to spare the rod either if one of the kids stepped out of line. Mad as a hatter.

    Also I seen a few say Burke should be made work for some LGBT orgs if he doesn’t pay the fines to soften his cough, but why would you wish that upon these people? I wouldn’t want Burke within 1 metre of someone who was gay/lesbian/trans etc.

    And not for his sake. For theirs.



  • Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭ Magnolia Hissing Youth


    Mad how you’re always talking to people who someone align with your own belief.

    Very interesting. It’s almost like you’re full of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I am convinced this will go on potentially for years

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,371 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    But you could say the same hypothetically on the other side of things.

    Inventing a hypothetical scenario of the Wilson Hospital student in question. Who in later life decides to de-transition writes a book on their story. Detailing this period and it becomes an Irish best seller explaining the trauma and so on. Leading to a role on DWTS and their own TV show.

    In my view currently both sides show the dangers of indoctrination, and when there is inflexible viewpoints. With no inbetween. Only my way or the highway.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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  • Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭ Magnolia Hissing Youth


    The main difference being the teenager has not asked for any of this rubbish. Theyre being dragged in (rather frequently) to a discussion that simply doesn’t need them mentioned.

    Burke’s behaviour is nothing to do with being for or against transgenderism. At this stage it’s a weird guy who won’t stop attending a school he’s sacked from.

    transgenderism has no place is the discussion, but Burke wants it to be constantly brought up so he appears to have a stance he’s fighting against. This isn’t about being LGBT this is about refusing to accept the law of the land and the consequences of your actions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Its a lot more nuanced than that. You and other posters have refused to countenance any idea that Enochs actions in addressing this matter are in way at fault. You and other posters here have refused to acknowledges Enochs accountability for his actions or previous anti LGBT hate campaigns. You and others have not in any way at all considered how disruptive and disrespectful his actions are to the rest of the school; other teachers, parents, students.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,303 ✭✭✭amacca


    There's bound yo be a black sheep of the family..holding down a job, not getting in disputes, being tolerant of all they encounter, living life while they live and let live etc!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    All of his actions are a form of indirect bullying of them

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Can we please drop vile insinuations like this that he might be sexually assaulted.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    You do realize nobody believes you.

    You keep referencing voluntary and councilling work, which, according to you, is verifiable and well regarded locally.

    Yet not one single shred of evidence is there to support these claims that you are making.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,350 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Well, he has nothing else to be at now..unemployable. Down to money and how much of it they have available to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,894 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Regretting transitioning and writing a book just doesn't seem like much of a story to me, more of 10 minute slot on a serious program. I don't see it as a path to anything else.

    Whereas a Burke family member leaving and adapting to 'normal' society looks decent fare to me. "This week follow XYZ as she takes her first shopping spree in Grafton St and her first proper hair-styling. Will she enjoy the Guns N Roses concert? And the preparations for next months trip to Ibiza gather pace". Reality TV likes uplifting stories. But I'm no expert on TV.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    He is not entitled to the dole or sick pay either if he is standing outside all day.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,371 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    You and I may class Burke as a weird guy.

    But he is staunch in his religious beliefs so much so they become part of his identity. You could argue that Burke never asked to have to be put into a position where he has to go out his way to use a different gender pronoun when addressing a transgender student.

    Because fundamentally given his religious beliefs he believes that there are only two genders. Which are biologically male and female. To say otherwise ie using the pronoun 'they' is going against his beliefs.

    Of course he could pretend and address such individuals as 'they' or even use the person's surname. But Burke obviously feels to do so would be avoiding the issue and/or not true to his beliefs. Because he views this as a chance to make a point.

    You say the teenager has not asked for any of this rubbish. Yes and no. Burke creating a fuss and the dragging the media attention into it must be an extremely pressurised situation.

    But I assume the Teenager asked the Principal that henceforth they want to use the pronoun 'they'. And the Principal obliged and issued the formal pronoun dictate to the members of staff. To which Burke objected at a Public event.

    If the principal never issued this dictate formally and just quietly made allowances for the student unofficially. Perhaps this furore could have been avoided. As I assume the student in question studies neither German or History.

    Objectively, I see it as the Principal going against the Church of Ireland ethos of the Wilson Hospital School. An ethos which previously Burke obviously thought was close to his own beliefs.

    The only thing Burke has done wrong thus far is ignoring court injunctions to stay away as he has been suspended on full pay. However, Burke views his suspension as contrary to his right of Freedom of Religion under A44 of the Constitution. Those are the facts of it as I understand it

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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