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Woman fined for grabbing a mans privates

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Comments

  • Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,750 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Strange one for me but as always very difficult to get a sense of what really took place in court (never mind during the actual incident) from news reports if you can call them that.

    No real indication why the judge completely dismissed the accused's evidence that she was assaulted, which he would have needed to do in order to convict her because her evidence to me seems to raise a quite reasonable doubt around her guilt. She didn't present an entirely unreasonable or fantasy version of events. She was clearly being belligerent and haughty even on her own evidence, which most people would probably say you shouldn't do while dealing with AGS just in case you have an accident coming down a flight of stairs or some other unfortunate ill befalls you.

    On the other hand, if the judge took the AGS evidence fully at face value, you'd certainly expect a more significant penalty than a €1,600 fine and driving ban.

    Definitely strange that there wouldn't be security cameras all over a Garda Station in 2023, particularly in the rooms where they interview/detain people as you'd imagine any sort of risk assessment would highlight those places as high probability for incidents.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,282 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    I stand corrected, thank you. Seems even more lenient in that case!

    Most stations probably still don't have full CCTV coverage, only the cell areas and maybe the custody suite (if they have one). They weren't in most places when I left in 2016, I think it was due to the GDPR issues surrounding recording people at work, as most stations don't have a separate custody area and have to walk through "civilian" areas to get to the custody suite/cells. Only the more modern stations might have something better. Most stations outside of the mains ones are ancient buildings designed when CCTV wasn't a thing.

    And her recounting of the events, to me, sounds like the typical things someone will say to try and get off of something. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I find it highly unlikely. There's no evidence of injuries she received, which would be substantial if we are to believe her. People have no idea what someone is capable of in these situations, and even the most timid mouse can turn into a lion. Having 5 members around a violent prisoner isn't unusual, in fact it should be standard. Just like handcuffing someone should be standard practice, might have prevented this whole situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Sadly there will never be equality between a man and a woman. The left still believes in it, but in practical matters it will never happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 436 ✭✭Girl Geraldine


    Exactly. Because in some respects, men and women are not equal. They are biologically different. One has a far greater tendency towards violence than the other. And in a violent situation, one has far greater potential for doing damage to the other. reproductive health and obligations wise, they are worlds apart in personal impact and risk. When it comes to problem sexual behaviours, it is overwhelmingly committed by males, and women and children and the victims to an overwhelming degree.

    In some areas the are or absolutely should be equal. But in other areas, they are not and simply are not capable of being equal because they are simply different .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,575 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Most stations probably still don't have full CCTV coverage, only the cell areas and maybe the custody suite (if they have one). They weren't in most places when I left in 2016, I think it was due to the GDPR issues surrounding recording people at work

    I doubt it, GDRP came around mid 2018. Also for that to be true the rights of 100s 1000s of workers up and down the country are been violated today.

    Most stations outside of the mains ones are ancient buildings designed when CCTV wasn't a thing

    CCTV is one of the easiest retro fits you can do.

    This station has it in the public office area.

    There's no evidence of injuries she received, which would be substantial if we are to believe her

    Why would her injuries be substantial?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,419 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Sounds like she was acting like a wild animal.

    Driving under the influence then assaults a number of Gardai, I'd be shocked if alcohol was the only thing in her system.

    She'll end up winning her appeal because our justice system is a farce. She sounds like an odious individual.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,282 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    @Boggles Ok, Data Protection or whatever was in place before GDPR. This isn't your average company, it's a lot stricter (as it should be) in AGS. Not perfect though, nothing is perfect. And while it is easy to retrofit CCTV, taking DP/GDPR into account creates issues with the layout and use of older buildings. Not everywhere can be covered for DP/GDPR reasons, and this creates the issue. Not everywhere, as I said.

    Re: Injuries, thrown against a wall, kicked and hit by up to 5 Gardai. There'd be at the very least bruising. But no mention of medical evidence so we can't say if it did or didn't happen from a medical standpoint. Just her word vs 5 Gardai. And their account seems far more believable to me, having being in such situations.

    As nullzero said, she'll probably win anyway.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    And Gardai have well established that they can be a trusted source, have they?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,282 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    I'd trust them more than some drunk angry self entitled woman who thinks she should get away with drink driving. Ever had to arrest and process a drink driver?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,203 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    They have, and on this occasion the Judge found the Gardaí involved were trustworthy too in spite of the defence’s similar implications of improper conduct on the part of the Gardaí involved -

    In his submissions, defence lawyer Glenn Lynch BL said it was "flippant" to say there was a garda conspiracy but there were "massive contradictions in the garda evidence" and there was a danger that gardai were simply trying to support a colleague.


    I also found it credible that the Gardaí involved appeared to have underestimated who they were dealing with and, let their guard down, so to speak, particularly this Garda who didn’t see it coming -

    A garda witness alleged Morrissey tried to push past him to leave the station, and swung her hand back, and he ducked as he thought she was going to hit him.

    He turned Morrissey towards the wall, holding her arm, and with her other hand she twisted and pulled his testicles and penis, he said.

    He cried out in pain and his colleagues helped bring Morrissey to the ground and forced her to release her grip.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    The Maurice McCabe saga shows that Gardai are just as capable of lying through their teeth in order to save their own skin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,575 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I never suggested everywhere should be covered by CCTV.

    And no, what she claims happened would not have resulted in substantial injuries, there could certainly have been some bruising to the guards chest and genital's though I imagine.

    Either way it would appear there was no tangible evidence offered in this case.

    I have no idea what grounds she will use to appeal, very much sounds to me what she claims is a case for the relevant complaint authorities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,184 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    Was she not charged with failing to provide a specimen rather than drink driving?

    Gardai ‘weren’t carrying any roadside breath tests’ during the Xmas/new year holiday season!

    I find that hard to believe.

    edit: was the 2km limit in force on Dec 28 2020? I can’t remember.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,282 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Correct, she refused to give a sample so assumption is she's well over and got the maximum 4 years. And there's a limited number of those machines, and usually with Traffic Corp Roads Policing Unit.

    If she claims what happened to her did happen, she would also have bruising. The stab vest could prevent bruising on the Garda (I know it did for me) and I pull the balls off myself regularly but never leave bruising. Doesn't matter, judge sided with AGS and her appeal will be interesting, if she does appeal. Either way, she won't be getting back on the road.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,049 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Correct, she refused to give a sample so assumption is she's well over and got the maximum 4 years

    statutory assumption?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,282 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Actually, I see it's all changed since I last was involved. 6 years is the max now, 4 years in the min for first offence. But yeah, if you refuse it's assumed to be the highest level and sentenced as per that.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/drink_driving_offences_in_ireland.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,575 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Doesn't matter, judge sided with AGS and her appeal will be interesting

    TBF no Judge is going to take the word of 1 person versus 5 Gardaí without tangible evidence , or at least state it in court.

    It seems he may of left a message in sentencing though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Not so much an assumption but the penalty for refusing to give a sample is the same as the penalty for being over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭Stripeyman


    Correct. Consequently there's no advantage in failing or refusing to provide the required specimens.



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