Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

19-01-2023 11:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128120#Comment_120128120

To me Byrne has been playing well for years though, but yea maybe that’s it.

19-01-2023 11:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128128#Comment_120128128

Haley could count himself somewhat unlucky.

McCarthy is simply not the 4th best lock in ireland right now, but that seems a projection pick.

OldRio · 19-01-2023 11:12AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128113#Comment_120128113

Well firstly he could be injured. Or secondly the people who are paid to make these crucial decisions have came to a conclusion.

crisco10 · 19-01-2023 11:13AM

I think Byrne is playing much better than he was in 2018/2019 when he got his 1st call up to the Ireland squad, but it really does help that he is playing in a team so dominant a lot of the time. Strangely, despite it being a poor game, I think the Ospreys match would have stood to him a lot, given Leinster were struggling and not on top, and he changed the game when he came on.

As much as I love Byrne for Leinster, I'm still a little haunted by his lack of impact (and mistakes) in Marseille and the Bulls Semi-Final last year.

Whatever about Carbery's performances for Munster, I think he has been pretty turgid for Ireland and maybe Farrell's starting to give up on him? or is he hoping for a kick up the backside like Coombes has gotten?

Stockdale is blessed to be in that squad, I think if Henshaw were fit, he wouldn't be there. But other than that, am I missing someone that he beat to the post (Nash?)...? But realistically, he would need a few injuries to move up the depth chart to get off the training pitch.

19-01-2023 11:14AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128151#Comment_120128151

McCarthy is simply not the 4th best lock in ireland right now

Who is?

letsbefair · 19-01-2023 11:16AM

It’s up to those left out to prove Andy wrong, he left the door open. It certainly gave Gavin Coombes the right motivation when he didn’t make a squad.

19-01-2023 11:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128171#Comment_120128171

Like, I’m trying to win a game tomorrow or i die. Definitely Kleyn, and maybe others depending. Honestly, Moloney is probably a more impactful player right now.

19-01-2023 11:26AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128151#Comment_120128151

Which tight head lock elsewhere is ahead of McCarthy in your view?

19-01-2023 11:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128229#Comment_120128229

I'm sure posters of a certain persuasion will say Kleyn but I don't really think he fits in with how Ireland are going at the moment. I also think he's about at his ceiling which is below international level.

19-01-2023 11:32AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128239#Comment_120128239

I think Kleyn has been brilliant the last two seasons. I half expected he might make a squad last year, but that having not happened it's clear he isn't in favour for whatever reason.

A much more experienced and gnarled lock, powerful tackler and good in contact.

McCarthy is a good deal quicker though and has better hands. I think Farrell is more focused on these skills rather than brute force.

phily2002 · 19-01-2023 11:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128239#Comment_120128239

Kleyn probably is ahead(and unlucky) but I think it's similar to Casey, Crowley and Harry Byrne where Farrell gets in young players who look like they have a high ceiling

Quitelife · 19-01-2023 11:35AM

20 Leinster, 8 munster , 5 ulster & 4 Connaught kind of sums up the strength of the 4 provinces.

Cookiemunster · 19-01-2023 11:36AM

Pat McCarry saying on twitter that the won't be an IRFU press conference until Monday.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 19-01-2023 11:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128151#Comment_120128151

McCarthy could be a pick as a tight head lock project.

All our other locks are more natural loosehead. That's fine. Sometimes we play with 2 natural lh locks and it works out. There's not a massive jump between the two spots.

Kleyn would be the other IQ natural tight head lock really that would be trying for the spot.

19-01-2023 11:41AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128275#Comment_120128275

More than enough time for things to get completely out of hand on here.

accensi0n · 19-01-2023 11:46AM

Is it not because of Carbery's reported move to the Crusaders?

Zeugnis · 19-01-2023 11:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128251#Comment_120128251

Lock has the potential to eclipse back row as the most competitive position on the team at the next world cup. Ryan is only 26. I'm not going to argue that the following are better than Joe McCarthy (it's too early in any of their careers, inlcuding joe's for such claims), but they are high potential players: Darragh and Niall Murray, Thomas Ahern, and Edwin Edogbo (the two Munster lads are injured and out of consideration).

Niall Murray has a lot of provincial caps under his belt for a 23 year old, and has been ruining opponents' line outs all season. He is also extremely mobile and a good tackler. I hope he's brought into the squad as a development player.

Podge_irl · 19-01-2023 12:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128032#Comment_120128032

Think Balacoune is injured yeah, otherwise definitely him.

Haley, Nash maybe? I'm not exactly crying out for anyone in particular, just think both have been quite poor whenever I've seen them play.

Clegg · 19-01-2023 12:18PM

Farrell earmarked 10 as a problem position a good while ago and it really hasn't been resolved. He tried to give Carbery, Burns and Harry Byrne as many opportunities as possible. For various reasons that hasn't worked out. He then turned to Frawley but injuries struck. Now we're onto Crowley and Ross Byrne.

It's a strange situation when the starting flyhalfs from 3 of the 4 provinces don't make Ireland's Six Nations squad. It shows that there's still a disconnect between what the provinces want and what the national side wants

Podge_irl · 19-01-2023 12:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128502#Comment_120128502

I don't think its really fair to put Carbery in the same grouping as those though. He has been quite obviously and clearly 2nd choice for 3 years now, and the rotation always behind him.

Its quite a shock for him suddenly to be dropped out.

19-01-2023 12:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128502#Comment_120128502

It's a strange situation when the starting flyhalfs from 3 of the 4 provinces don't make Ireland's Six Nations squad.

That is bizarre when you put it that way.

It shows that there's still a disconnect between what the provinces want and what the national side wants

Not if you believe some of the posters on the Munster thread. They'd have you believe David Nucifora is picking the team across all four provinces basically, for reasons that are unclear.

19-01-2023 12:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128502#Comment_120128502

I get what you're saying but Burns and Carty just aren't at the level required and really we know that. This is the first squad Carbery hasn't made possibly since he broke through so I'm not sure you can say there's a disconnect, and I'll eat my hat if the IRFU didn't have a hand in getting him down to Munster. If he's not injured, it just seems to be a form pick, albeit a very surprising one.

Akrasia · 19-01-2023 12:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120127875#Comment_120127875

I would be very very skeptical about that

It would destroy their relationship with Carbery if Munster blocked him from being included in the Irish squad in a RWC year

(And the IRFU wouldn't listen to Munsters' request even if they asked)

lawrencesummers · 19-01-2023 12:28PM

If carbery was good enough to be in the squad he would be the nailed on no questions asked 10 for munster.

And frankly he isnt that.

pickarooney · 19-01-2023 12:29PM

I'm really not as convinced as others that we have good depth in the back three. Selection criteria currently seems to be "don't be injured".

Akrasia · 19-01-2023 12:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120127918#Comment_120127918

Carbery hasn't been playing well enough to be the Irish 2nd choice out half.

Ross Byrne has been playing consistently and he's a better place kicker so that's probably why they included him

I strongly doubt Sexton will be able to play 4/5 games in the 6 Nations as he's not been able to string games together in a good while now, so the real question, is who starts when Sexton is injured

aloooof · 19-01-2023 12:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128523#Comment_120128523

Not if you believe some of the posters on the Munster thread. They'd have you believe David Nucifora is picking the team across all four provinces basically, for reasons that are unclear.

It was a single poster; you’re making this out to be a lot more than it actually was.

almostover · 19-01-2023 12:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128027#Comment_120128027

As a Munster fan this is my major issue witb Carbery. His defence is very weak in the 10 channel. His game has been fine this season with ball in hand. However, the opposition make him a target for their heavy carriers as his defence is poor, even more so since all the injuries. Sub consciously that must be affecting him. I haven't examined Munsters play closely enough but I'm guessing we've tried to shield him in defence somehow. Crowley is a stronger defender, hence playing 12 also. Maybe that's what Ireland want from their 10?

aloooof · 19-01-2023 12:37PM

This adds an interesting conversation about 2nd choice halfbacks.

You wouldn’t really want Murray and RB as your sub half-back pairing if you were chasing a game.

If RB is selected as the sub 10, I think I’d like to see Casey selected on the bench for that balance. Equally, if it’s Murray, I’d like to see Crowley.

almostover · 19-01-2023 12:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128128#Comment_120128128

Mike Haley is a little unlucky not to be included given his recent form. But his lack of versatility counts against him. I'd have him in the squad ahead of Stockdale though.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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