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The current hospital / A&E crisis

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,768 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    And too many hospital admin staff asking the same questions over and over, providing zero care and siphoning significant wages that could have been spent on nurses, doctors, beds or meds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,780 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    I'm no fan of either Martin or Varadkar but its the HSE itself that needs to be reformed if there is to be any hope of changing things.

    There are too many people in well paid jobs for life wth a nice pension and a tidy one off payment on reteirment that the rest of us can only dream about.

    Now the question is has anyone the balls to go in there and reform it?

    Probably not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,491 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    I'm quite surprised that nobody has "gone postal" in a healthcare setting. A staff member, patient or family member.

    I posted in AH a while back about my experiences with rude, incompetent and obnoxious staff in our hospitals and how I felt like punching someone due to their attitudes to my relative with dementia. And those experiences mostly happened during scheduled appointments and outpatient clinics, not in the chaos of A&E.

    The system is terrible - but when a doctor or nurse shows a shocking attitude to a patient and their carer (me) who has been polite to them, that's on them - not on Varadkar or Martin.

    Also, people with dementia are routinely discriminated against by arsehole healthcare "professionals" who can't be bothered dealing with them. "I'm too busy to be dealing with this crap" seems to be the attitude.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,541 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    It's criminal. Every time I see these two jokers on TV all I can think about is the way work is inside. They should be arrested for treason, but instead, there they are smiling and spoofing as usual.


    A pair of cûnts.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,541 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    At least 50% of HSE staff are worse than useless. Anywhere else, they'd be sacked. I could tell stories but unless you're in the "system" nobody and I mean NOBODY would believe me.


    Jobs for life. Can't be sacked. You can literally and I mean literally do nothing and you'll be sound.


    Everyone starts out the same, full of optimism, you're not gonna be like the rest, until you see the carry on, you're destined to be as useless as the next fella.


    Management are 100% to blame, promote within, don't actually hire managers, hire the lad that's been there the longest even though he's useless, union back these decisions, they don't hire managers, they hire yes men and lads that won't interfere with the system, of what can only be described as SCAMMING the tax payer.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭babyducklings1


    Yes still my first port of call as well if it’s in the minor league. Also sixty euros to see a doctor never mind trying to get an appointment. It just seems the surgeries are always clogged with patients and doctors are so over stretched with no time.In contrast I have always found the pharmacists so helpful and they seem to have more time to talk to people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 656 ✭✭✭batman75


    I can't recall a politician or former politician being left on a hospital trolley. My heart goes out to all those who have suffered as a result of the overcrowding. Also thought to the health professionals who have to witness this. It must be very distressing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 656 ✭✭✭batman75


    I assume they have private health cover given their salaries/pensions. Plus Ireland being Ireland who you know etc even if the politician goes public pretty sure they are going to be looked after. The hospital manager wouldn't want the bad publicity of a politician current or former being left on a trolley.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭eggy81


    How do the army and air corps and the like manage to hold onto their trainees, as in you have to serve a minimum period before the option to buy yourself out even occurs? Why don’t they get hassle for restriction of trade.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,785 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    That is totally the wrong message to send and is dangerous. Alot of serious illness start of as nothing serious but then can get serious when not treated early. How are people to know whether something is serious or not?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Count Dracula


    It happens every year, old news as far as I am concerned. Journos these days get to drive home in the evenings which is far better than drinking alone in a rural hotel. I feel more sorry for them broadcasting outside in the cold, all wrapped up, windswept and sniffling away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,431 ✭✭✭Deeec


    How is it the wrong message - people visit their gp for all sorts of non urgent stuff that could be dealt with by visiting their pharmacist or using common sense ( especially if they have a free service). I don't think you realise how difficult it is to get to see a gp at the moment if you are actually SICK. In the town I live in if you are sick today you will be lucky to get an appointment in 7 days. The advice the GP receptionists give is you should go to a and e instead whatever your symptoms are - the sad thing is people are taking this advice and clogging up a and e with problems that should be dealt with by a GP.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,703 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    GPs are for non-urgent stuff.

    Pharmacists are not doctors and common sense is a poor substitute for medical training.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,431 ✭✭✭Deeec


    But in these times when gps are so busy surely it makes sense to stop non urgent stuff.

    As I mentioned my GP nobody can get appointments when needed. If I have a sick child with temperature, sore throat etc tomorrow that needs attention and gp receptionist says sorry no appointments until next week what do you recommend I do?

    Is it right that the gps appointments are taken up with people with pains in their big toe, don't like the shape of their nose, hypochondriacs with nonsense etc. these appointments were made weeks ago.I don't think it is right given the crisis we are in at the moment.

    Do you realise now that for many people their gp service is non existent? It is a HUGE and very worrying issue.

    This problem could be coming to your GP practice very soon - you yourself may find it easy to see your GP at the moment but believe me that can change. What would you do if you need to see your GP due to illness and receptionist says sorry no can do?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,703 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Not really no. If anything what we are seeing now is partly attributable to people not seeking out the healthcare and advice they needed during COVID times, and now having issues that are more expensive, more urgent and more time-consuming to solve.

    Also, your solution is, in essence, "stop other people getting in my way". Its completely unworkable/unenforceable. Who is deciding what is "urgent" and what is not? Is checking out a suspicious lump or mole urgent? I mean it can generally wait a few more days always. Does your child with a sore throat trump that? The latter is actually far less likely to be serious and the treatment will 99% of the time be paracetamol and fluids. What about chronic pain issues - where do they rank on your scale?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,431 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Oh good god you don't think seeing a sick child is urgent. Have you not heard of strep A recently.

    Of course someone that is concerned about a mole should go see their gp. Chronic pain I'm not sure what the gp can do for this person - not alot really. I'm talking about time wasting appointments that could wait or shouldn't be happening at all. If you speak to any gp they deal with alot of time wasters who usually have a medical/gp card and attend their gp with every little issue because it's free.

    Of course lack of gp services is contributing to the current crisis.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,703 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Seeing a sick child is incredibly frequently not medically urgent. The entire point being that the parents don't know that and are not good judges of that and therefore wish to see a doctor.

    The same is true of many ailments others suffer from that you have decided to deem a waste of time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 794 ✭✭✭Dunmoreroader


    Interesting article on how University Hospital Waterford (UHW) is avoiding a trolley crisis, (so far...) though I don't know why Pat Leahy in the I.T. insists on calling it 'Waterford hospital' as if we've just the one down here. (For the uninitiated; UPMC Whitfield, St. Patricks, St. Otterans, St. Josephs Dungarvan, St. Vincent's Dungarvan.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,934 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Partly...meh.

    These problems with GPs, trollies, bed capacity, and staffing were all chronic many years before COVID. Every year is another straw on the camels back.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,703 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Absolutely the problems have existed for years, though it is clearly of a different magnitude this time.

    I am not attempting to absolve anyone (political, management or otherwise) of blame for the situation, merely saying that emergency measures such as "don't see doctors for minor issues" can have pretty negative and counter-productive long term effects.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,006 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Indo have poll which "reveals public's confidence in hospitals shattered".

    Q. In what circumstances would you attend an ED in current climate?

    72% Only if I thought my life depended on it

    23% Only if I was referred by my GP

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,934 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    In the past hospitals used to house their staff on site or near by in halls or dorms. They may have to go back to that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,006 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    This is an INMO press release in November 2019 - 2 months before Covid hit.

    2019 breaks record for most patients on trolleys – and it’s not even December (inmo.ie)

    2019 has seen the highest number of patients on trolleys in any year since records began – despite it still being November.

    The INMO is calling for extra staffing and an increase in hospital, homecare, and community capacity to deal with the problem.

    The union has invoked healt and safety laws for staff, writing to the Health and Safety Authority and HIQA, seeking their intervention. 

    “Winter has only just begun and the record is already broken. These statistics are the hallmark of a wildly bureaucratic health service, which is failing staff and patients alike.

    “We take no pleasure in having to record these figures for a decade and a half. We know the problem, but we also know the solutions: extra beds in hospitals, safe staffing levels, and more step-down and community care outside of the hospital.

    “No other developed country faces anything close to this trolley problem. It can be solved, but a strong political agenda to drive change is needed.

    “The INMO has written to the health and safety authorities this week to try force a change from the employers. Hospitals should be a place of safety and care – not danger.”

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    They'd be all out on strike

    Politicians can't charge in



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,934 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I don't think it's of a different magnitude. It's just incrementally worse each year.

    2018 I think we spent 2-3 days in A&E with a couple of family members. One didn't get a trolley or bed for 24 hrs. The other who was close to death didn't see a doctor for like 6hrs.

    Place was packed. Didn't get any sense of urgency from the staff. Everything done at a snails pace.

    All worked out. But even back then the whole place was dysfunctional.

    ...I have been in hospitals where the staff were excellent and extremely busy. I just don't think all the hse works at the same pace. Some hospitals are definitely much worse than others though in this regard.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,006 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Listening to the various doctors on the radio over the past week, they sound completely broken.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,780 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    They don't.

    The defence forces are struggling to hold on to the people they have because the pay is crap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,780 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Expect it to get a lot harder to get an appointment when 500,000 more come into the gp card service soon, the reality is when people don't have to pay for a service they will use it for minor things that don't require a doctor at all.

    And before anyone jumps on me its not me saying this but a GP that was interviewed after this was announced in the budget.

    Post edited by Galwayguy35 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,780 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Well nothing will change then if the Government is too afraid to take on the unions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    It's a battle they can't win if the unions withdraw their members services



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    GPs do leave slots for paying customers and leave the medical card patients on the long finger



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,006 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Ex HSE CEO Tony O'Brien saying that the FFG ministers have been given a script to repeat in the media this week to put blame on everyone else excluding themselves.

    He said the problem is clear - not enough beds resulting in constant bed over utilisation which then cannot cope in any surge. He said more beds and staff were needed many years ago and the government knows this.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,431 ✭✭✭Deeec


    100% agree. Its a huge problem as is and is only going to get worse.

    free service = service that will be abused



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Can they get the staff though to go with the extra beds



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,431 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Not in my GP practice - doesnt matter how much you pay there are no appointments to be had. I dont have a medical/GP card so pay full fee but still impossible to get an appointment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,006 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    It's a vicious circle. Staff are leaving due to working conditions. They won't attract of retain if they don't improve work conditions thru more capacity, less overtime hours and improved patient ratios. The lack of politics will to fix things has done more damage that we even realise.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Think children with sore throats especially with temperature have to be seen more urgently than the lump or sore big toe . Doctors receptionists and practice nurses do triage where possible. For example changing appointment times or keeping urgent appointments slots open every day for last minute appointments.

    A sore big toe on a diabetic could be an urgent case .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Nurses will not strike while this present crisis is ongoing.

    Many of them have been working in their days off for the last week to try to help sirt it out . Hence the frustration .

    But nobody wants strikes just effective action by government and HSE management



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,703 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Absolutely, I have no issue with triage being done - but it needs to be done by the right people. Messaging telling certain people not to go to the doctor won't help and will likely just cause more long term suffering. Not to mention that inconsiderate pricks will just keep going anyway so you'll just end up removing conscientious or those prone to guilt being the ones missing out on potential care.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,934 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    They (the ones I have experience of) try to leave slots for emergencies that are within their medical ability to deal with.

    Perhaps if you are in an area where they are swamped with medical card patients to the point where it effects the viability of the clinic, they might have filter. But I've never heard of that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,314 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Walk in 24h GP clinics are the alternative to attending A&E, not some small fee punishment which may or may not be paid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    The out of hours wasn't funded or staffed don't know which

    Effectively became useless round here , most not bothering with it

    Doctors referring you to a+e for minor issues and then a nurse deals with it ,go figure



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,314 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I don't think suppressing the access to medical care is the solution, education and providing alternatives is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,314 ✭✭✭Cordell


    To be honest I don't think anyone likes spending 10 hours in the A&E for the craic and charging them a tenner will do nothing if the 10 hours wait does do anything either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,431 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Its about making people think before they use a medical service - even a small charge makes people think twice if they really need to go. If something is free it is always used and abused.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,314 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I'm one of those who is charged 100 for the A&E visit but it never meant anything, when I needed to get there I went there. The only deterrence were the miserable waiting times, and in my opinion if that doesn't turn you away nothing will.

    One thing I will support is to bypass triage for people who were referred by the GP. They were already triaged.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    Out of which they have to pay for the practice , including a receptionist , practice nurse etc.

    Most GPs would be on a lot less than that.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl




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