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The current hospital / A&E crisis

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,808 ✭✭✭Deeec


    How is it the wrong message - people visit their gp for all sorts of non urgent stuff that could be dealt with by visiting their pharmacist or using common sense ( especially if they have a free service). I don't think you realise how difficult it is to get to see a gp at the moment if you are actually SICK. In the town I live in if you are sick today you will be lucky to get an appointment in 7 days. The advice the GP receptionists give is you should go to a and e instead whatever your symptoms are - the sad thing is people are taking this advice and clogging up a and e with problems that should be dealt with by a GP.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,826 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    GPs are for non-urgent stuff.

    Pharmacists are not doctors and common sense is a poor substitute for medical training.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,808 ✭✭✭Deeec


    But in these times when gps are so busy surely it makes sense to stop non urgent stuff.

    As I mentioned my GP nobody can get appointments when needed. If I have a sick child with temperature, sore throat etc tomorrow that needs attention and gp receptionist says sorry no appointments until next week what do you recommend I do?

    Is it right that the gps appointments are taken up with people with pains in their big toe, don't like the shape of their nose, hypochondriacs with nonsense etc. these appointments were made weeks ago.I don't think it is right given the crisis we are in at the moment.

    Do you realise now that for many people their gp service is non existent? It is a HUGE and very worrying issue.

    This problem could be coming to your GP practice very soon - you yourself may find it easy to see your GP at the moment but believe me that can change. What would you do if you need to see your GP due to illness and receptionist says sorry no can do?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,826 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Not really no. If anything what we are seeing now is partly attributable to people not seeking out the healthcare and advice they needed during COVID times, and now having issues that are more expensive, more urgent and more time-consuming to solve.

    Also, your solution is, in essence, "stop other people getting in my way". Its completely unworkable/unenforceable. Who is deciding what is "urgent" and what is not? Is checking out a suspicious lump or mole urgent? I mean it can generally wait a few more days always. Does your child with a sore throat trump that? The latter is actually far less likely to be serious and the treatment will 99% of the time be paracetamol and fluids. What about chronic pain issues - where do they rank on your scale?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,808 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Oh good god you don't think seeing a sick child is urgent. Have you not heard of strep A recently.

    Of course someone that is concerned about a mole should go see their gp. Chronic pain I'm not sure what the gp can do for this person - not alot really. I'm talking about time wasting appointments that could wait or shouldn't be happening at all. If you speak to any gp they deal with alot of time wasters who usually have a medical/gp card and attend their gp with every little issue because it's free.

    Of course lack of gp services is contributing to the current crisis.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,826 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Seeing a sick child is incredibly frequently not medically urgent. The entire point being that the parents don't know that and are not good judges of that and therefore wish to see a doctor.

    The same is true of many ailments others suffer from that you have decided to deem a waste of time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭Dunmoreroader


    Interesting article on how University Hospital Waterford (UHW) is avoiding a trolley crisis, (so far...) though I don't know why Pat Leahy in the I.T. insists on calling it 'Waterford hospital' as if we've just the one down here. (For the uninitiated; UPMC Whitfield, St. Patricks, St. Otterans, St. Josephs Dungarvan, St. Vincent's Dungarvan.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,770 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Partly...meh.

    These problems with GPs, trollies, bed capacity, and staffing were all chronic many years before COVID. Every year is another straw on the camels back.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,826 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Absolutely the problems have existed for years, though it is clearly of a different magnitude this time.

    I am not attempting to absolve anyone (political, management or otherwise) of blame for the situation, merely saying that emergency measures such as "don't see doctors for minor issues" can have pretty negative and counter-productive long term effects.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,844 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Indo have poll which "reveals public's confidence in hospitals shattered".

    Q. In what circumstances would you attend an ED in current climate?

    72% Only if I thought my life depended on it

    23% Only if I was referred by my GP

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,770 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    In the past hospitals used to house their staff on site or near by in halls or dorms. They may have to go back to that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,844 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    This is an INMO press release in November 2019 - 2 months before Covid hit.

    2019 breaks record for most patients on trolleys – and it’s not even December (inmo.ie)

    2019 has seen the highest number of patients on trolleys in any year since records began – despite it still being November.

    The INMO is calling for extra staffing and an increase in hospital, homecare, and community capacity to deal with the problem.

    The union has invoked healt and safety laws for staff, writing to the Health and Safety Authority and HIQA, seeking their intervention. 

    “Winter has only just begun and the record is already broken. These statistics are the hallmark of a wildly bureaucratic health service, which is failing staff and patients alike.

    “We take no pleasure in having to record these figures for a decade and a half. We know the problem, but we also know the solutions: extra beds in hospitals, safe staffing levels, and more step-down and community care outside of the hospital.

    “No other developed country faces anything close to this trolley problem. It can be solved, but a strong political agenda to drive change is needed.

    “The INMO has written to the health and safety authorities this week to try force a change from the employers. Hospitals should be a place of safety and care – not danger.”

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    They'd be all out on strike

    Politicians can't charge in



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,770 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I don't think it's of a different magnitude. It's just incrementally worse each year.

    2018 I think we spent 2-3 days in A&E with a couple of family members. One didn't get a trolley or bed for 24 hrs. The other who was close to death didn't see a doctor for like 6hrs.

    Place was packed. Didn't get any sense of urgency from the staff. Everything done at a snails pace.

    All worked out. But even back then the whole place was dysfunctional.

    ...I have been in hospitals where the staff were excellent and extremely busy. I just don't think all the hse works at the same pace. Some hospitals are definitely much worse than others though in this regard.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,844 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Listening to the various doctors on the radio over the past week, they sound completely broken.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    They don't.

    The defence forces are struggling to hold on to the people they have because the pay is crap.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Expect it to get a lot harder to get an appointment when 500,000 more come into the gp card service soon, the reality is when people don't have to pay for a service they will use it for minor things that don't require a doctor at all.

    And before anyone jumps on me its not me saying this but a GP that was interviewed after this was announced in the budget.

    Post edited by Galwayguy35 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Well nothing will change then if the Government is too afraid to take on the unions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    It's a battle they can't win if the unions withdraw their members services



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    GPs do leave slots for paying customers and leave the medical card patients on the long finger



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,844 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Ex HSE CEO Tony O'Brien saying that the FFG ministers have been given a script to repeat in the media this week to put blame on everyone else excluding themselves.

    He said the problem is clear - not enough beds resulting in constant bed over utilisation which then cannot cope in any surge. He said more beds and staff were needed many years ago and the government knows this.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,808 ✭✭✭Deeec


    100% agree. Its a huge problem as is and is only going to get worse.

    free service = service that will be abused



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Can they get the staff though to go with the extra beds



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,808 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Not in my GP practice - doesnt matter how much you pay there are no appointments to be had. I dont have a medical/GP card so pay full fee but still impossible to get an appointment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,844 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    It's a vicious circle. Staff are leaving due to working conditions. They won't attract of retain if they don't improve work conditions thru more capacity, less overtime hours and improved patient ratios. The lack of politics will to fix things has done more damage that we even realise.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,572 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Think children with sore throats especially with temperature have to be seen more urgently than the lump or sore big toe . Doctors receptionists and practice nurses do triage where possible. For example changing appointment times or keeping urgent appointments slots open every day for last minute appointments.

    A sore big toe on a diabetic could be an urgent case .



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,572 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Nurses will not strike while this present crisis is ongoing.

    Many of them have been working in their days off for the last week to try to help sirt it out . Hence the frustration .

    But nobody wants strikes just effective action by government and HSE management



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,826 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Absolutely, I have no issue with triage being done - but it needs to be done by the right people. Messaging telling certain people not to go to the doctor won't help and will likely just cause more long term suffering. Not to mention that inconsiderate pricks will just keep going anyway so you'll just end up removing conscientious or those prone to guilt being the ones missing out on potential care.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,770 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    They (the ones I have experience of) try to leave slots for emergencies that are within their medical ability to deal with.

    Perhaps if you are in an area where they are swamped with medical card patients to the point where it effects the viability of the clinic, they might have filter. But I've never heard of that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Walk in 24h GP clinics are the alternative to attending A&E, not some small fee punishment which may or may not be paid.



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