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Cities around the world that are reducing car access

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Some hot takes going on here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    What are you on about? Growing congestion isn't a good thing for anyone, reducing car journeys has massive benefits. The solution to overwhelmed public transport is better public transport not more cars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,576 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    By saying hot takes it sounds you are implying I am trying to be edgy or contrarian, but I am really not. I am just reflecting mainstream thought. Ryan is the radical here. A 20% reduction in car numbers in just 7 years is really very radical.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Firstly you need to have a target to aim for. Secondly, many (not all) people should not need a car if there was adequate PT & active travel options. These people are obviously predominantly urban based, etc.

    Thankfully the options are being put in place (despite plenty of opposition from people and NIMBY residents groups, many of whom are solely concerned about losing parking spaces) so in seven years people will be in a position to decide whether or not to replace their car (or even whether keeping an expensive-to-run depreciating asset is worth keeping).



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,576 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    So all Ferrybank traffic has to move through Military Road and Ballybricken instead? It would be much more just closuring the car park. Would you pedestrianise Grattan Quay too? How would you supply shops on the quays? Truck access at certain hours? Some of the hotels there have no other road frontage. Where do you move the bus station too?



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    I never mentioned closing any roads. I said that the car park should be replaced by an urban park. The road could be left open with a 30kph limit, pedestrian priority and traffic calming measures

    As to how shops would be supplied in pedestrianised areas, well that would be the same way shops are supplied on pedestrian areas the world over. Early morning deliveries before the area becomes busy.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,412 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Are the targets a 20% reduction in *cars* or car *travel*?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I think they described it as reducing "mileage" by 20% so journeys.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    Given the CSO stats that 50% of car journeys are under 2km then aiming for getting more of those journey types eliminated would go a massive way to a reduction by 20% of total car usage on the roads. It really is low hanging achievable fruit. But far less sensational than "that cabbage lads wants to take 20% of our cars off us..."



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,071 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Well I know enough that it looks dreadful having a giant car park fronting the river and it certainly wouldn't entice me to go back. Many cities are opening up their city front rivers, Waterford is rigidly sticking to storing private cars on theirs. I'm sure the penny will drop at some point.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,576 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Waterford has been lauded as a leader in pedestrianisation. There is already a long established walking route there.

    The Irish Times and a few other peddlers of fake news came up with 20% of cars.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,412 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Looks like the anti-LTN brigade have a high profile ally. And the stuff he's quote tweeting looks a little bonkers.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,382 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Why are you paying any attention to that clown? He's irrelevant and not nearly as popular as twitter would have you believe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,775 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    the comments ffs. ireland is full of stupid backwards morons if the internet is to be believed.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    I assume he is taking the piss but I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong about that



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,775 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    They're definitely taking the p*ss but the most voted comment thinks it will dissuade shoppers from going to the city centre, sigh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Mostly comments about the homeliss. Very little sympathy with cars tbf



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,494 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    I don't know what it is about internet comments but it does not matter how uncontroversial, how much good it brings, the majority of the comments will be sensationally negative. The journal is particularly bad for it though. Anyway it is isolated though as proper voting polls done for Capel Street and College Green show that it is overwhelmingly what people want and hope for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,415 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    If you think that’s radical, you’re in for some nasty shocks over the next decade or so. You ain’t seen nothing yet.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,775 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    yeah but they look like they're in favour because people like us who take an interest in these things answer these polls. your average dubliner seems to think otehrwise if facebook etc. are anything to go by. even some of my own friend group back home can't understand why you'd pedestrianise areas and think it's ruining the city. i'm losing hope, i think i need to get off twitter and other social media.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,494 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    I'm not sure how the polls were done but I assumed they did something to try and make them more representative?

    If it's the case though then I'm genuinely glad that it's people interested in urbanism and city design who are having more real world impact then even if it's just because of skewed opinion polling, it sounds pretty unempathetic and self righteous of me but I genuinely think people who are dead set against pedestrianisation are direly misinformed most of the time and have irrational fears that are almost always disproven. If you asked them their opinion on success of pedestrinisation mobility in cities in netherlands and other parts of europe would they have anything bad to say ? I strongly doubt it which makes me think it is irrational fears of personal inconvenience which makes causes this disparity of opinion .



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Forcing thousands of cars into a medieval street pattern and a subsequent endless programme of road building across the country to support that choice for untold billions of euros and putting 133 people (the safest year since the 1940s) into their graves per year to accommodate that choice was the radical decision. A 20% reduction is a partial de-radicalisation of a transport policy that was plain nuts to begin with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Urban planning is a technical discipline, what value is the opinion of howiyas on Facebook? You might aswel ask the same crowd about rocket science. You'd likely get the same answer: I.e. spend it on the homeliss. Of course if same individuals had a homeless shelter, methadone clinic or mcvey housing unit open next to them they'd be the first on Facebook condemning it because of lack of amenities etc.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    What was the public perception of the Dublin Luas prior to its actual inception - carrying people?

    Was it not that it was an expensive white elephant, and that no-one would use it?

    What is the current opinion of those same people? Probably they are complaining about how crowded it is and we should build more lines.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Not sure if that was the public perception or was that just the anti-Irish Times perception. I remember mostly positivity but of course there was no social media in them days except for a few message boards and many homes were without a computer.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,235 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Yes, the Irish Times commentator crew were almost all negative on it, but the general public were only ambivalent on it, at least in my opinion. Plenty of talk about how the construction works were killing streets/businesses, etc, but I can't remember if there was any talk about how it was going to be used afterwards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,494 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Why are the Irish times like that? Is there somebody high up with some kind of car agenda? Because it's one topic where in an otherwise quite balanced paper that clear bias is shown against any pedestrianisation or reduction in car mobility/usage. It simply must be deliberate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Look at the ads: the person who pays the piper calls the tune.

    Same with "drive time radio". If all the ads are car companies....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,503 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    And it's the exact same with certain companies that also own certain other companies that are deeply embedded in the property market. Irish Times own MyHome.ie, The Journal own Daft.ie, etc.

    Vested media interests are a horrific pox



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