New Irish Rail Intercity, Commuter and DART Timetable Public Consultation

loyatemu · 30-12-2022 07:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026753#Comment_120026753

didn't they put a tender out for that a few years back and received no responses?

trellheim · 30-12-2022 08:35PM

apologies for stupid ideas here. But I keep seeing ICRs on cork-dublin . Why not replace these with mk4 sets and just run more waterford trains . I thought they'd brought all the mk4 sets back from mothball ( or do I have that right ? ) or is that there isnt enough double track sections to run more sets ?

end of the road · 30-12-2022 09:45PM

as far as i know they don't have enough mark 4 sets to run the hourly service full stop.

i think all of them are back now, but 1 generally is in maintenence and then there is a short spare set.

of course when ordering them in the first place one would surely have thought about an hourly service and planned accordingly, even with the mk3s in service at the time which presumably they knew years earlier they were going to withdraw early.

but it sounds like they didn't and we are, where we are, like a lot of bad decisions that were made for which passengers are being sold short, some more then others.

combat14 · 31-12-2022 12:02AM

the lack of late evening/night trains to places such as portlaoise which is only 40 mins from dublin is shocking, eamon ryan would want to wake up and get his finger out!

Itssoeasy · 31-12-2022 12:08AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120047802#Comment_120047802

Ah @endoftheroad we will have less of that forward planning. Why break a long tradition of acting first and thinking second.

on the Mk4 sets how many full sets do IR have when all in service ? I passed Kent station in cork on Christmas Day going for a walk and there were three there(two in the through platforms) and one in the yard. There’s always a spare 201 in cork which shows that IR do think ahead in some cases.

end of the road · 31-12-2022 01:42AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120048317#Comment_120048317

from what i can gather there are 67 mk4 coaches but i don't know the exact configurations.

it will either be 8 sets of 8 with 7 in service, 1 in maintenence and 3 spare coaches.

or 9 sets of 7 with 8 in service, 1 in maintenence and 4 spare coaches.

trellheim · 31-12-2022 11:54AM

doesnt 7 in service give enough to run an hourly though ? The MK4s were in service before the ICRs running it so it must be possible

TranslatorPS · 31-12-2022 12:45PM

There should be 8 MkIV sets.

Unfortunately I don't have the current diagrams at hand, but in the 2017 WTT, I only found five MkIV diagrams in service... Keeping in mind that this could have been at a time when less sets were available.

In that same timetable, some of the Dublin/Cork services were ICR operated, as they looped in with the Cork/Mallow/Tralee services. A 4-car ICR would have [day 1] gone down as the 21.00 A230 service to stable in Cork, [day 2] forming the 6.25 A300 to Tralee, doing two laps of Mallow and one of Cork, stabling in Tralee, [day 3] doing three laps of Mallow (with a Mallow/Cork commuter in the morning), before finishing as the 19.05 A315 and stabling in Cork, [day 4] to form the 5.50 A203 to Dublin. The direct Dublin/Tralee services were 5-car in that timetable, and as such should not have mixed with the Cork services, doing the 17.05 A312 down, stabling, and the 7.05 A303 up the next morning.

With the amount of changes in the last five years though, who knows how much of this may still be applicable to anything.

end of the road · 31-12-2022 02:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120049078#Comment_120049078

they were but remember the mk3 were still in service when they arrived and were so until a few years later.

after that i can't remember if the mk4 did fully run the hourly service, they might have but i can't remember.

i think it is possible but that is going on a very rough diagram based on the advertised journey times and train times + turn around times, so i can't guarantee any accuracy.

trellheim · 31-12-2022 05:42PM

ie's own web page looks like there's only 5 mk4 sets out and about see https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/About-Us/Iarnrod-Eireann-Fleet/interCity-Fleet

this does not square with p1 of this thread where IE state the full fleet is being utilised so no more room for peak services

end of the road · 31-12-2022 06:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120050156#Comment_120050156

thanks for that, hard to know what the actual situation is to be honest.

the last time i had a look at the IE website they mentioned that only 56 of the ICR sets are in service when there are 63 sets i believe.

2 or 3 out at a time with one being a spares doner would make sense but 7 seems off even if it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

LXFlyer · 03-01-2023 02:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120050156#Comment_120050156

Five sets in daily service, one in maintenance plus one as cover adds up to seven sets.

That leaves only one set potentially not in use?

It sounds like they’re not including the maintenance cover in the fleet numbers.

trellheim · 03-01-2023 03:29PM

Yes, this is what I had thought. It didnt square with page 1 "full fleet utilisation"

LXFlyer · 03-01-2023 03:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120059986#Comment_120059986

As I said the maintenance sets should be included in the fleet numbers as they are part of the operational fleet.

“Full fleet utilisation” will always include the maintenance sets.

patrickc · 03-01-2023 11:54PM

I got the new Carlow 10.10 service this morning, people were standing from Kildare on.

the 18.35 had people standing too, seats empty with names over them but noone on them.

Jamie2k9 · 04-01-2023 01:05AM

The IV fleet historically had 6 units in serivce. That leaves another set that could be available and 1 set under heavy maintenance.

The real issue is at times of peak travel you have ICRs at peak times heading to Cork which is unacceptable. I mean should the 19:00 on Fridays really be an 7 ICR just one example. I understand there will be a method to wider rostering of that ICR however I also think many other servies on a Friday could use that capacity.

Then you also see ICRs subbing even during peak travel times if a IV fails.

trellheim · 04-01-2023 01:45AM

The real issue is at times of peak travel you have ICRs at peak times heading to Cork which is unacceptable. I mean should the 19:00 on Fridays really be an 7 ICR just one example.

This was kind of my point - the set is probably better off to Waterford for example.

LXFlyer · 04-01-2023 12:11PM

Apparently, having asked some people more in the know than I, there is a modification programme of some sort for the Mark 4 fleet ongoing, which means that one set is out of service at any given time.

Hence the need for additional ICRs on Dublin/Cork at the moment.

bikeman1 · 04-01-2023 01:48PM

07:00/10:25/14:00/17:25. Start Dublin finish Dublin.
08:00/11:25/15:00/18:25. Start Dublin finish Dublin.
09:00/12:25/17:00/20:25. Start Dublin finish Dublin.
Ety Cork - Mallow, 08:00 Mallow - Cork / 09:25/13:00/16:00. Start Cork finish Dublin.
07:00 ex Cork / 11:00/14:25/18:00. Start Cork finish Cork.
Maint spare / 19:00 to Cork. Start Dublin finish Cork.
Completely spare set, believed to be under mods.
There should be another full set parked up.
Three spare carriages.

8 x 8 = 64 plus 3 spare = 67 vehicles. There are 8 DVT, diners and 1st class.

There is a huge under utilisation of the MKIV fleet, both in diagramming and sets in traffic.

trellheim · 04-01-2023 02:31PM

There is a huge under utilisation of the MKIV fleet, both in diagramming and sets in traffic.

Agreed

That was what I was trying to say

LXFlyer · 04-01-2023 03:05PM

They’re the old rosters from what I can tell.

But suffice to say, I think it would be reasonable to expect 6 sets rostered for service, one rostered as cover in the event of a failure, and one then in for maintenance.

Ireland trains · 04-01-2023 04:09PM

could IE not just reduce the turnaround time at both ends as surely 30 minuets is sufficient.

Then only 6 sets would be required

bikeman1 · 04-01-2023 07:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064585#Comment_120064585

Sorry one mistake, the 08:00 is not MkIV anymore and the 11:25 ex Cork.

Ex Dublin;

07:00/09:00/11:00/13:00/14:00/15:00/17:00/18:00 and 19:00 are MkIV. With a switch on a Friday to the 19:00 being ICR and 21:00 being MK IV

The double set that goes down on the 21:00, splits and does the 05:45 (4 ICR) and 06:15 (3 ICR) express.

08:00, 10:00, 12:00, 16:00 and 21:00 are ICR.

Sunday’s are practically all MkIV.

You can work out what is what by the seat planner. You’ll see the ICR plan or MkIV plan when going to pick a seat.

Also, the “quieter” carriage lists the MkIV trains https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/quieter-carriages-to-be-provided-on-heuston-to-cor

So a very poor utilisation of sets.

Set 7, was the standby set as it only comes out at 19:00. This is now set 6. So they have one full spare MkIV and better links could free an ICR out.

There should also be an 06:00 ex Dublin to make it to Cork for business Mon-Fri

trellheim · 05-01-2023 02:24PM

if they freed the 7th you could do all the turns as MK14 by the look of it and free that 7 up to do 2xextra waterfords as a 3 and 4

bikeman1 · 05-01-2023 10:52PM

The thing at the moment is the 06:15 express which comes up as 3 ICR. There should be a balancing express back down to balance that move.

trellheim · 06-01-2023 11:07AM

there's a big gaping 20:00 empty slot for it to leave Heuston and by the time it gets back the next morning - the 0615 is timed in at 0830 it could be the 0900 or 1000 outbound set. Hence freeing up the 2nd ICR.

bikeman1 · 06-01-2023 11:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072719#Comment_120072719

Yes, a 20:00 express 3 ICR to Cork would fill that gap nicely and a set should be free at that stage to do so (the current 21:00 3 ICR). Then revert the 21:00 to MkIV everyday with better diagramming. That would plug a gap in the 19:00 - 21:00 section. Give people a fast option to get to Cork after an early evening in Dublin and also an hour later departure for the last train ex Dublin for the Cobh & Midleton lines (the 21:00 misses the last trains in Cork). The final bonus would be extra capacity on the 05:45 ex Cork.

The 4 ICR freed up by not going down to Cork on the 21:00 and back on the 05:45, will with the new centre cars become 6 ICR, which I'm sure the people on the Waterford line would love to boost capacity with a later evening train to Waterford (don't forget the last train to KK & Waterford is at 18:35!!!) and an additional up train in the morning to provide a huge capacity boost (between the 06:50 and 07:50 from Waterford).

p_haugh · 06-01-2023 03:01PM

I'd imagine that potential 20:00 weekday service from Connolly to Gorey mentioned in the timetable changes is dependant on the new ICR carriages coming in to service in the new year? Or is it a case of driver shortages?

trellheim · 06-01-2023 03:07PM

if you look at the response to the consultation most of it ="driver shortages"

TranslatorPS · 06-01-2023 05:16PM

Amusingly enough the 8pm Gorey service is timed and printed in the Dec'22 WTT, just not marked as operating regularly. A Connolly 20.05 departure for a 21.59 Gorey arrival, which would then form a 22.25 Gorey/Connolly, with a 24.08 arrival, all timed for a single 29000 - the working can be attached to the end of an existing 29000 diagram, merely increasing the mileage in the existing number of sets.

New Irish Rail Intercity, Commuter and DART Timetable Public Consultation

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