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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,289 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    hopefully we get two fully loaded teams on stephens day, and then if he shines his test stock will certainly rise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    We won’t see fully loaded sides at all I’m afraid. Given the games to date I’d imagine most internationals will be rested. Beirne for example has played 80 mins 4 weeks in a row now. POM has been involved in all 4 of those as well, albeit only 2 have been for the full 80.

    Frisch looks good, but let’s maybe hold our horses on this one for now. He wasn’t great last week and Northampton are a little way off the likes of France, or hell, even Scotland.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    While his display was very good, it is somewhat tempered by the fact that NH were appalling. Always difficult to distil down whether it is the quality of the defence or the quality of the attack more at play, but at the very least the NH halfbacks were clearly atrocious.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,480 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    What's happening with Northampton? Hard to believe with the players and pedigree they have that they're not more competitive



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    They don't really have more than one or two quality players anymore. Lawes is head and shoulders their most talented/high profile player. After him, there's a gulf. Tommy Freeman and Dave Ribbans were capped this season but neither are likely to be making any significant waves at test level. They've a few guys that were capped in the past and then discarded (same as most Premiership teams).

    The days of them having lads like North or Biggar on the books are gone. I'd say Dowson is in trouble there. Between Europe and the GP, they've conceded 52 tries in 12 games. Worst defence in England.

    The GP teams aside from Sale and Saracens are at a very low ebb right now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    I believe he is seen as someone equally adept at 12 or 13. 13 the harder position to play so you can see how his playmaking skills would also suit 12.

    Although Farrell loves a bit of punch at 12. & i think he is going to stick with selecting that Centre trio at 12,13, 23 - Henshaw/Ringrose/Aki.

    We saw the benefits of Aki coming off the bench v NZ in 2nd Test and again v Aus. He's also a great man from 5m out.

    Henshaw also made big impacts from the bench v Fra and Eng.

    Would make complete sense to bring him into the 6N squad. But who do you drop? Hume/McCloskey?

    I could only see Frisch getting a start or 23 jersey if Ringrose AND Henshaw were out.



  • Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hume is definitely the guy on the outside based on current form. He was dropped for the Australia game squad in the Autumn, and has had a relatively poor year this year for Ulster, with an especially poor outing against Sale in Europe.

    Because of injuries and form he's only played 4 times this year (versus 8 starts for Luke Marshall) so it wouldn't surprise me to see him on the outside right now for 6N.

    McCloskey has had a few poor enough outings for Ulster of late, but had a good November for Ireland, and I'd be surprised to see him dropped.



  • Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭ Everleigh Freezing Oasis


    It's a shame for Hume because I thought he was really excellent last season. Injury has scuppered him this season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Frisco couldn't get into his home teams squad! He's a bit away from the Ireland squad, imo. Certainly, Ringrose, Henshaw and Aki are the main lads. Frisco is in competition with McCloskey, Hume and to a lesser extent, Osborne.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Frisch, lol



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    That's more or less where I'd currently rank him too. Although in the scenario where Ringrose is out, and where Henshaw plays, I think it could soon become a much tighter call between Frisch and Aki, especially considering the disciplinary risk of the latter.

    At the very least, he'd be the closest challenge to Aki for a 13 shirt, out of the other names mentioned so far, McCloskey, Hume, Frawley, Osbourne etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Jesus TRC. I know you disagree with everyone. But you've finally gotten to the stage of disagreeing with yourself. Fairly impressive levels of arguing there I must say.

    James Cronin couldn't force himself past a player that "fell off a cliff" or a player that "hasn't been top class for a long time" and yet he got frozen out?

    If a player can't get past these walking liabilities as you eloquently painted them as they why wouldn't he have been frozen out?



  • Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Frisch was quality at the weekend - has been a good signing and looks adaptable to international rugby.

    If he can play both centres that ups his chances as I can't imagine McCloskey is viewed beyond 12. 3 established, proven and quality centres ahead of him though and McCloskey is having a massive season. Good few other players looking very impressive this season who are in the mix so he'll have to back up last week with a few more at that level to even be likely a squad spot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Hume seems to be a massive victim of the shake up in Ulster's coaching team and departure of Payne. His defensive reads have been really, really poor this season. He looks low on confidence and has been caught out badly several times. That's in tandem with things not really clicking for him in attack as of yet. He missed a solid chunk of the early season after his summer injury but he should be in a position now where he's firing on all cylinders.

    In terms of centre options, I would imagine Osborne is closer than some suggest. He was the one who was picked at 13 for the Ireland A game against NZ and went quite well there too as well as starting twice for the Emerging Ireland team at 13. I would think he's someone that the Irish staff are looking at fast tracking based on all evidence to date.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see him capped in RWC warm up matches if he gets some decent game time before the end of the season (his current game time levels aren't sufficient for a cap).

    Frisch is an interesting one. He's obviously taken the road less travelled to be here and seems to be someone we're still not entirely sure on due to the lack of available game time for him in Ireland at this point but he looks promising. I'm not sure he's going to be in the mix for the 6N but he's definitely in the selector's minds, I'd imagine. It's notable that he was called up to the French Barbarians (formerly the designated second team for France) but withdrew the week of the game with a thigh injury despite starting the week before for Munster and playing 80 minutes the week after for Munster. I wouldn't be surprised if someone had a word and told him if he wants to play for Ireland, he shouldn't be appearing for a French representative side and he acquiesced.



  • Administrators Posts: 56,516 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Agree on Hume.

    The reappointment of Johnny Bell at Ulster was very, very questionable. Smells of jobs for the boys / looking after your mates.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Didn’t Payne want the attack coach role? So they would have required a new defence coach one way or the other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Frisch has really impressed me so far from what I've seen of him. He seems to be the exact mould of a 13 that Mike Catt would like. Heads up all rounder capable of big moments.

    Osborne really has impressed me so far and I think he has the makings of a top tier international. He's athletically gifted too. We don't get many 6'4" fellas ready for senior rugby at 20. He's got good size and a fantastic all around game.

    At this moment it does seem to be a straight shoot out for the spare 13 slot between these 2 guys with Hume missing out due to a relatively slow season thus far.

    Osborne could be a mighty shout for the 23 shirt with his penchant for FB and 12 too. And that's not even considering JOB whose given us great flexibility there too.

    We're in good shape with outside backs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,940 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I've been really encouraged by Frisch (not least because a quality distributing centre hasn't always been the way Munster have gone in the past) but I think I'd be surprised to see him involved in the 6N's, or even. He might get an opportunity in the RWC warm-up games.



  • Administrators Posts: 56,516 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    I would assume Osborne would be ahead of Frisch. Can play any where from 11-15 and has a left foot if I’m not mistaken



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,864 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    If we're talking about the World Cup, I reckon there's a decent chance we bring the usual three plus Jimmy O'Brien, with McCloskey coming in if any of the top three are injured. Another option could be two outhalves, three centres, and Crawley. Not sure how likely it is we select a fourth specialist centre like Hume or Frisch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Dunno but Dan Soper was given that job when Peel departed in 2021, a year before Payne left. And he's done a decent job. I think Gibbes knew full well how good Payne was and gave him a good opportunity in France. He's a loss as I think there would have been an opportunity beyond defence coach if he had stayed with Ulster including something with the national team if any of that coaching set up moved on.

    Ulster have a problem with their defence in a big way. It was notable that their young guys coming through were all very good defensively in the last few years. That all appears to have slipped away at this point. They're making poor reads in defence, their communication seems to have gone downhill and there are big gaps appearing between players.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    I thought at the time of the appointment, the consensus was Bell had done ok previously?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,362 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Beirne, Doris and VDF all made the L'Equipe world team of the year.

    We have a truly excellent pack of forwards from 1-8 right now. I'm very hopeful that they can continue playing to this high level this season and into the World Cup.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    I thought Ntamack had a fairly poor season. So I’m surprised to see him there ahead of Sexton.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,362 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I agree. I don't think Caleb Clarke or Rieko Ioane should be there either. And the should be a place for Ardie Savea too. Maybe ahead of Doris.

    But these are subjective opinions and everyone's team will be different. I think it's enough that Doris and Beirne are considered amongst the best in the world by some, and VDF the best by many. We've a lot of quality forwards in the starting 8.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Well you’d always expect a few all blacks to sneak in where their not supposed to be.

    Yeah Savea not being there is an absolute mystery. Phenomenal season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Ah Stephen its a French paper! Grand Slam & all.

    Now Caleb Clarke...

    My team is basically the Irish side! Best 12 months of Irish rugby since 2018. France unfortunately have Messi Dupont

    Keenan; Penaud, Ringrose, Fickou. Lowe; Sexton, Dupont; Porter, Sheehan, Furlong; Beirne, Ezebeth; Dorris, vdF, Savea



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  • Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Keenan should be there ahead of Capuozzo.



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