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I am Proud of Being a Conspiracy Theorist

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,904 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Life saving treatments are not the time to pander to parents derelicting their duty of care to their children. That's why you wouldn't do it. The top medical professionals have other priorities, suchb as SAVING THE KIDS LIFE.And that's why the parents behaviour here is so reprehensible.

    It's not about asserting the supremacy of an agenda in refu sing the request. That's what that parents have been doing with their kid, using them as a political weapon. Their request has no basis in science or medicine and was rightfully refused and the state exercised its legitimate powers towards parents who are not acting in the best interests of the child.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You bizarre ranting aside, can you point out where you guys were claiming that the conspiracy was that the global plot was to take away people's parental rights.

    I don't remember you guys claiming that.


    If you can't point that out, then can you explain why you are suddenly claiming to have made accurate predictions?


    Also, why do you not consider it a failure that the conspiracy theories have convinced these parents of the false notion that getting blood from a vaccinated person is somehow dangerous?

    That kinda shows why your silly claims can be dangerous, no?

    Not exactly something to be proud of.

    Nor is again exploiting people's tragedy to promote this silly harmful theories.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,297 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It's not a take-away, people can't be demanding bespoke blood based on extreme beliefs, it opens the gates to insanity.

    People believe crazy stuff like this all the time, children have died due to it. If these parents want to deny their child life-saving surgery due to those beliefs they could be facing manslaughter charges. To avoid that, the solution is to get the child to surgery under temporary custody. The parents are going to be informed of the progress every step of the way.

    You don't have a "right" to kill your child with stupidity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,415 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose



    "Its about as hard as asking if he can wear his spiderman pyjamas during the procedure."

    Then, why did the courts in NZ disagree with you? Do you have a medical degree and can make this case? Because the real doctors testifying disagreed with you

    Nice whataboutism regarding religion, etc. You know that Jehovah's Witnesses, who have prior art long before anti-vaxx loons showed up, can be compelled to agree to blood transfusions.

    A link for you to dispute your polemics here:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63884694

    Like all things anti-vaxx, it's about the grift. Note the protestors and conspiracy loons outside the courthouse, and disrupting meetings with the doctor's in the saga.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 237 ✭✭Kumejima


    Yeah guys its all about the grift. For sure I know most people who have kids only have them so they can use them as a weapon against Big Government and Big Pharma when they're in a life or death situation. Really conniving the way the parents planned this all out, getting pregnant on purpose and all. Thanks Odyssey, I wouldn't have been onto them only for your sharp eyed assessment of the situation. 🤣

    If there is no basis in science for saying unvaccinated blood and vaccinated blood are different, what is the medical argument for rejecting the request for unvaccinated blood? What is the medical benefit to the child of having its parents go through this type of stress and trauma just because the hospital is refusing to accede to the equivalent of a restaurant being asked for brown toast instead of white with the breakfast fry? How do these last months of drama help the child or future children?

    Explain why it couldn't have been done? Since they're exactly the same thing then this was about one thing, power. The docs could have done this but chose to put this family through hell as a warning to others, as an example. It's bullying, its heartless and its despicable



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,904 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Where did I say that they got pregnant for that purpose? You have made an entirely false and baseless accusation.

    Go on find the line. Because you seem to be making up strawman nonsense, which is a clear sign of the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of your argument.

    How did the last few months help the child? So why are the parents using the child as a pawn, or allowing their family to be used as a pawn by these grifters when there is no medical reason to do so and it would complicate an essential LIFE SAVING OPERATION for the child.

    To suggest it is the equivalent of what meal to have with breakfast is an utterly absurd and disgraceful comparison and further highlights the emptiness of your argument which is based on strawmen and scurrilous false accusations.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,415 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    All your questions are answered in the bbc article I posted. Did you read it?

    FWIW, since it appears you're a bit slow on the uptake, no one accused the parents of being in on the grift. Their anti-vaxx 'supporters' certainly are.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,803 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Interestingly at the bottom of the BBC article the "More on this story" section highlights this article: 'Vaccine blood clot risk far smaller than Covid risks':

    The findings of a major study suggests that the increased risks of blood clotting disorders from Covid vaccines is "far smaller" than the risks associated with getting the virus.

    So it is accepted that there is an increased risk of blood clotting disorders from the vaccine.

    And it is accepted that parents who ask for blood from a blood donor who is not at an increased risk of blood clotting disorders should lose custody of their child for the dereliction of their duty of care as a parent.

    And the people who believe this think they have some sort of moral high ground?

    Go figure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,904 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Did they ask for blood from someone who never had covid? Covid can cause blood clots too.

    How about reviewing the medications taken by any donors for any risk of increased clotting?

    Why not?

    Can you tell us how a national blood service is expected to function where anyone can demand blood from a specific cohort of donors based on a perceived risk without fully understanding all risks? Maybe you can 'go figure' that out while you hurl from the ditch baseless innuendo.

    So go figure? Yes we did. Based on evidence. As the judge and medical professionals did.

    Are we on the moral high ground? Well we arent in the cesspit of outright lies and medical disinformation and scurrilous innuendo:

    "a meeting with a doctor at Starship hospital where a “support person” hijacked a meeting with the parents. The person pressured the specialists with theories about conspiracies in New Zealand and went as far as to claim infants were dying from transfusions at Starship hospital, the judgment said."

    This is the CMO of New Zealands evidence:

    ”Dr Morley’s evidence (including her reply affidavit) is that there is no scientific evidence there is any Covid-19 vaccine-related risk from blood donated by donors previously vaccinated with any New Zealand approved Covid-19 vaccine, and there are no known or suspected harmful vaccine-related effects of blood from a vaccinated individual to a recipient of any age, after millions of transfusions around the world,” Justice Gault said.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/baby-blood-donor-vaccine-battle-judge-to-deliver-high-courts-ruling-this-evening/WG7T6AWM4BHU5PHZL37X2ZI374/

    Versus this... the reasons why directed transfusions are not recommended:


    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,803 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Some of those NZ experts should tell the US experts of the dangers of directed blood donations:

    Patients who need blood during medical treatment at Children's receive blood collected from volunteer donors by one of our community blood banks (Memorial Blood Centers or the St. Paul Red Cross.) All blood used at Children's is carefully screened and tested to meet all federal government requirements.

    However, some parents may feel more comfortable coordinating blood donations for their child from relatives and close friends. This service, called directed donation, is available to parents who make a special request.

    If the parents had lived in Minnesota, the doctors would have had no problem with this request. Who'd have thought it?




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,904 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Read the full article:

    "If your child needs blood, all suitable directed-donor blood will be used first. If more is needed, volunteer-donated blood will be used. Children's transfusion service staff is not responsible for notifying parents of the number of directed-donor units available for their child."

    This approach is not acceptable to the parents in NZ. They are endangering their childs life based on scurrilous medical disinformation spread by grifters about children dying from transfusions.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,011 ✭✭✭✭walshb




  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,803 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Yes, I read the full article, including the bit you quoted, and it says if you wish to use directed donor blood, that is possible.

    In Minnesota they'd do their best to accommodate the concerns of the parents. Which is quite the contrast to NZ.

    I think Minnesota have the moral high ground here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,904 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Thats not what the article says. You have left out the crucial point by taking one part of it out of context

    In doing so your post is a misrepresentation of the article contents. So your claims to judge the moral high ground ring hollow.

    In Minnesota while you can use direct donations, they cannot guarantee exclusively the blood will be sourced from direct donors. The Minnesota approach would not be acceptable to the NZ parents.

    Nor can they in NZ. Note the key word exclusively:

    "A High Court judge has ruled in favour of health authorities who sought court guardianship of a gravely ill baby boy after his parents refused a blood transfusion and instead wanted a court order to receive blood from exclusively unvaccinated donors."

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/baby-blood-donor-vaccine-battle-judge-to-deliver-high-courts-ruling-this-evening/WG7T6AWM4BHU5PHZL37X2ZI374/

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,803 ✭✭✭hometruths


    So your comment: "In Minnesota while you can use direct donations, they cannot guarantee exclusively the blood will be sourced from direct donors."

    Seems to concur with my comment: In Minnesota they'd do their best to accommodate the concerns of the parents.

    We are in agreement on the approach in Minnesota. I'm not misrepresenting anything.



  • Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    OK. So you can't point out where you conspiracy theorists were predicting that the conspiracy would be the government taking away parental rights about blood donation.

    You can't explain why conspiracy theorists are claiming to be right when all of thier predictions have failed.

    Weird that you'd bring up this example of parents being duped by misinformation like the shite you spread as some kind of success.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,904 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The word games continue.

    No they arent doing their best to accomodate concerns such as the NZ parents have. In Minnesota they are in fact firm that they could not and would not accomodate their concerns becuse they explicitly state no guarantee of exclusivity.

    We are discussing the NZ case.

    Is the Minnesota approach acceptable to the NZ parents?

    Yes or no?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,803 ✭✭✭hometruths


    In Minnesota if you provide enough blood from your directed donor they will use only that blood. If they need more than you have provided then they will use extra blood from a different donor. Perfectly reasonable.

    So if you're a Minnesota parent who wishes your child to receive unvaccinated blood, find an approved directed donor and ensure you provide enough blood.

    Problem solved.

    So yes the NZ parents could ensure their wishes are fulfilled in Minnesota. If they failed to do so it is because they have been unable to find a suitable donor to supply sufficient quantity. But they cannot claim they did not have the option.

    So yes it is an acceptable approach for the NZ parents.



  • Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So therefore conspiracy theorists were right?

    Failing to see what point you're trying to argue here other than nitpicking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,904 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    More word games.

    You dont know how much blood is needee. You dont know how much donated blood will be usable.

    Minnesota will not guarantee exclusivity. They will not state how much directed donations are available. Minnesota gives no option of guarantee of exclusivity. That is what NZ parents are demanding. Best efforts are not acceptable. They are not looking for option of a possibly sufficient donor.

    Your version of what they want is a a fabrication, something you have made up out of thin air, without merit or foundation because you are hoist on your own petard.

    You cant bring yourself to acknowledge the key point from an article you linked because you know it has holed your argument below the waterline.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,874 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Another thread and another basic misunderstanding of an article of text.

    From a practical perspective, they don't categorize donated blood this way because it would be unnecessary and insane to do so as it's not based on anything scientific.

    If you want specific donated blood, you can do so to your hearts content (just make sure you've got your intentions lined up and visible somewhere if you're unconscious), the state will (and always has) step in and look after children who are being put at risk by their guardians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,297 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Indeed

    To recap, the court has ruled in NZ that in this particular case that the parents can't get customized blood. That's because a) there are no issues with vaccinated blood, b) the current NZ blood service is excellent according to the court and c) it would set a ridiculous precedent (people demanding customized blood, e.g. from vegans only, etc)

    These parents are people acting on irrational beliefs, they don't know more than doctors, and are endangering the life of their child, hence the court had to be involved. Unfortunately kids can and do die in situations like this, and likewise parents can and are held accountable.



  • Site Banned Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Rather arrogant. Are you an expert? Do you understand exactly what they are saying, or going blindly along with it because they have a PhD or something?

    Questions are good, but research before Questions is even better!

    I won't pretend to understand rocket surgery or anything like that. I do believe the moon landings did happen, but you have to ask yourself why are we only going back now, after decades, with ridiculously far superior technology, landed a rover on Mars, deflected an asteroid...what did they find?



  • Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    But as we've seen throughout this forum conspiracy theorists don't do research and they don't really ask or like questions.

    Like your "question" above.

    What have you actually done to research this and find the answer?

    Or was it "I don't understand so therefore there must be a conspiracy."



  • Site Banned Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    I don't believe you answered my question first. What "expertise" do you have of astrophysics, rocket propulsion, radiation on humans outside our atmosphere. Increased technology and amazing new advancements in space knowledge...but decades...

    I can read too, but I can also critically think.



  • Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm curious what the tact will be now.

    Try to argue that experts are all wrong and transfusions from vaccinated people are obvious deadly?

    Argue that parents have the right to let their kids die because of bullshit they've fallen for on the internet?


    Either way it let's them avoid acknowledging or thinking about the negative consequences of spreading conspiracy theories.



  • Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    None beyond a basic understanding of physics and an casual interest in space travel. Never claimed otherwise.

    Can you answer my question now please?

    What specific research did you do to reach the conclusion that there is some conspiracy behind the notion that people haven't gone back to the moon?



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 3,821 Mod ✭✭✭✭LFCFan


    How many conspiracy theories have ever been proved true?



  • Site Banned Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




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  • Site Banned Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Loads and loads. Let me help you Google.com

    Can lead a horse to water...



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