Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

ionadnapóca · 08-12-2022 03:06PM

We fear change!

I agree that the IRFU would not want drastic changes. But no system is perfect. I thought an outsider (Nucifora) was the right type of person to oversee the Provincial structure, operations and the link to the senior team.

The Irish Provincial and Senior setup is now on such a strong footing I'm sure the job description would be well defined. Insider v Outsider may not be that important.

Insider Pro's: Somebody who has worked in the system and knows the Pro's & Con's. Relatively seamless transition.

Outsider Pro's: Fresh set of eyes and no perceived provincial bias.

Personally I would lean towards an insider because I think Cullen is the best candidate and the IRFU should be doing everything they can to keep him within the system.

As far as I can see it Cullen's biggest dilemma would be IF he had to move players on from Leinster. Weakening them in the short term but for the greater good of the Senior team.

e.g. Jenkins (that old chestnut) in 2024

&

a) IF the other Provinces didn't have Irish internationals and real emerging prospects (Edogbo. Still cant believe he's only 19)

&

b) IF Leinster had the Irish internationals Ryan, McCarthy, Baird (for the sake of example) AND a glut of real prospects (Deeney, Soroka, O'Tighnernaigh, Mangan, Spicer)

Personally I think he's professional enough and an even minded individual that his Leinster feelings wouldn't come into it.

Carbery might even have to be moved back to Leinster in 2024!!

pickarooney · 08-12-2022 04:22PM

Oh, God, could Connacht not use him as backup?

11-12-2022 08:52PM

There's a big interview with Calvin Nash in the Sunday Times today, few interesting snippets (he didn't appear to be a fan of JVG) but this stuck out a bit, note this is the journalist saying it, not Nash:

"His coaches were impressed by his curiosity, his hunger for information, his willingness to leave his wing in search of work — a trait shared by wings such as James Lowe and Mack Hansen, but not so much by Robert Baloucoune."

Certainly not how I'd view Baloucoune when he's playing for Ulster, he seems to show up all over the place.

molloyjh · 12-12-2022 12:36AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984872#Comment_119984872

Ah no, Balacoune is a far more traditional winger. He isn’t one to go roving about the place at all.

phog · 12-12-2022 11:11AM

Nash has grasped the opportunity given to him in Munster by injuries to Earls, Conway and Zebo to show that he is more than capable for stepping up. It will be interesting to see who wins/loses in Munster as those players return from injury. Is he succeeds there then he can start looking towards Ireland where he will once again face tough opposition to get into a match day squad. I like him so obviously Id' love to see him progress.

12-12-2022 11:16AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986372#Comment_119986372

Yeah, I think he's been excellent. He's a quite similar winger to Andrew Conway imo, in that he brings really good defensive solidity and great diligence and effort on kick chases etc, but is also quick enough to be a serious threat when opportunities are presented. He's had a really good year so far.

Sleepy Joseph · 12-12-2022 11:56AM

No Ulster player should be near the Ireland 23 based on that performance over the weekend

molloyjh · 12-12-2022 12:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986522#Comment_119986522

No Ireland 23 should ever be decided based on 1 provincial game. But it’s not like any of the guys in that Ulster side are currently in a first choice 23 anyway. Herring and Treadwell are next cabs off the rank but Sheehan, Kelleher, Ryan, Beirne and Henderson are ahead of all of those. There isn’t really anyone else realistically that close to the 23. Maybe McCloskey and Lowry, but they’re debatable.

EDIT: Timoney is in the mix in the back row too obviously. But again, as a next cab off the rank.

12-12-2022 05:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986589#Comment_119986589

I would say Lowry's relatively indifferent form this year has probably pushed him a bit further back in the queue than he would have been at 6N time. Obviously Keenan is a clear number one, but indications are Jimmy O'Brien might be next in mgmt's thinking, and to me then, Mike Haley has earned the right to be next with his performances of late.

sprucemoose · 12-12-2022 05:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986522#Comment_119986522

i didnt follow the game as it was happening and judging just by the score it looks terrible, but in fairness it sounds like the travel situation disrupted things massively so that probably was a factor

having said that, if everyone is available id probably have henderson and moore on the bench and thats about it from ulster if i were picking the 23 - nothing to do with the sale game though. doak will probably push into the squad at some stage after the rwc too and guys like mccloskey, balacoune, timoney and herring are options if needed

12-12-2022 07:02PM

McCloskey still has plenty of goodwill in the bank after the autumn I'm sure.

Dubinusa · 12-12-2022 08:12PM

You can't just dump players after 1 awful outing! If that was the case, Murray would have pissed off 4 years ago!

Treadwell has credit too. He played really well v Leinster. Lowry is probably waning. He's not big enough. McCloskey will be in the mix as will Timoney.

Ulster have had a terrible week, which will probably get worse this week.

12-12-2022 08:31PM

Lowry I'd say has lost a lot of ground to JOB since the start of Nov.

bilston · 12-12-2022 09:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986522#Comment_119986522

They shouldn't be in the Ulster 23 either

theVersatile · 13-12-2022 10:03AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986522#Comment_119986522

Silly comment. People said the same about Munster after their bad play off loss against ... Guess who! Ulster!

Sport is fickle. One club game doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of international rugby.

Clegg · 13-12-2022 10:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119988765#Comment_119988765

Hume has probably dropped down the pecking order as well. It's a bit unfair as he has been injured a lot, but he isn't near his performances of last season either.

bilston · 13-12-2022 01:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119990255#Comment_119990255

It's been stop start for him in terms.of injuries, but on form Ulster should be picking Luke Marshall ahead of him never mind what Ireland are thinking.

TRC10 · 17-12-2022 05:29PM

James Cronin is having a superb game for Leicester against Clermont. We could really do with him now. Bizarre that he was always frozen out when you see what he's doing for the best team in England, particularly given our dearth of quality at loosehead.

Brief_Lives · 17-12-2022 05:35PM

Johann Van Grannnnnnn... what a disaster he was....

sydthebeat · 17-12-2022 05:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007730#Comment_120007730

Who's "we" ??

Cronin was never anything more than a bit part player for Ireland six years ago.

He's enjoying his time hitting rucks for Leicester and fair dues for that, but nah, Ireland do not miss him at all.

Clegg · 17-12-2022 05:46PM

Cronin was behind Healy and Jack McGrath in the Ireland pecking order at the time. He was a decent player but was never making it past either.

Healy is our greatest ever loosehead and McGrath was a test Lion.

Dubinusa · 17-12-2022 05:58PM

I reckon Cronin would be in the frame. I think he's a good all round player. Fair play to him. He deserves to make money and he seems to be enjoying himself.

TRC10 · 17-12-2022 06:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007782#Comment_120007782

McGrath was a test Lion 5 years ago and fell off a cliff after that. Healy hasn't been a top class player for a long time.

sydthebeat · 17-12-2022 06:47PM

Loughman suits the Irish system in many other facets than Cronin. The right choice was made there

Former Former Former · 17-12-2022 07:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007915#Comment_120007915

McGrath was top class for at least a year after the Lions before a career ruining injury. He didn't drop a cliff.

Healy is still the second best LH in Ireland.

James Cronin got exactly the number of caps he deserved.

This pantomime villain shtick is getting old.

molloyjh · 17-12-2022 08:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008015#Comment_120008015

And sure you won’t beat La Rochelle with James Cronin!

aloooof · 17-12-2022 08:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007969#Comment_120007969

Loughman suits it in many other facets than Healy currently too tho.

I think there’s a decent chance Cronin could’ve been 2nd choice LH right now had he stayed in Ireland, but given Covid budget cuts, I still think it was the right decision for Munster with Loughman and Wycherly there.

17-12-2022 09:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008294#Comment_120008294

He'd still be in the Irish system if this was the case. It's not just Munster making these decisions in a vacuum. If Farrell et al thought wanted him he'd have been retained.

aloooof · 17-12-2022 09:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008364#Comment_120008364

Nah. He’d still be in the Irish system if he had been 2nd choice at the time he left.

But given the dearth of options at LH (to the point Porter has switched back) I don’t think it’s a stretch to say he could be 2nd choice now had he stayed.

Former Former Former · 17-12-2022 09:33PM

Open to correction but I don't think Farrell ever even named him in a training squad?

Big leap to think he could now be in the 23.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Comments