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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,801 ✭✭✭All_in_Flynn


    Yes that sums up pretty much how I feel about them. I think we've evolved past a team struggling to break down a team who are digging in. I'm by no means saying they can't beat us but I think it will take an awful lot to go wrong on the day for that to happen.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    That's absurd logic. We could easily go 12 years without even playing them in a world cup. If you don't think the fact we have beaten them in 3 of the last 4 matches (3 of them in NZ!) would give them cause for concern then you are basically saying nothing will.

    Also please go away with this "only game that really mattered" nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Yeah, losing a series at home totally didn’t matter to NZ at all. Noooooo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,939 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    …They'll have concerns when we're competitive against them at a world cup, where they always up their game.

    …since 2011.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Ah good. The "only games that matter are in a tournament started in 1987" crowd are having their shpake again. This is always helpful, relevant, informative, respectful of the sport's broader history and meticulously contextualized.

    <draws up chair and opens notepad>

    Please continue.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I never said it didn't matter to them. I said they won't fear us in a world cup game and I stand by that.

    The "only games that matter are in a tournament started in 1987" crowd are having their shpake again.

    I never said this



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,939 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I never said this

    How else are we supposed to read this?

    And in the one game it really mattered, they absolutely demolished us.



  • Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ah lads, the all black coach very nearly lost his job and had to change up his coaching team after the tour. Intimating that it doesn't matter is barely different to the blow ins who call tests friendlies as a wind up.

    I don't know why people engage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,687 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    It didn't matter to us. No one in NZ cared. No one even knew it was on. No you shut up. We beat you in the cricket!



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  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,289 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's a term used to describe the noise from the crowd at the end of the third test in Wellington last summer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    What's John Plumtree doing these days? Last i read was he was coaching NPC.

    Forget Pivac, Jones, Leo.....Plumtree to Leinster please!

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Last I read he was coaching NPC for free.


    He is definitely an amazing forwards coach.


    Leinster would need to let McBryde go and recruit a scrum coach and still replace Lancaster with a defence coach.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    He could take Leo's role.

    Defence coach is sorted. Apparently.

    And the successor to Nucifora would also be sorted.


    edit:

    Post Nucifora who would be a good fit as Performance Director? Someone from within or an outsider?

    Nucifora contract is up after the WC but I read before the Australia game that he is planning to stay until summer '24 (Olympics).

    That timeline would be suitable for Cullen. It would also give Leinster another season post Lancaster (and prob Sexton) and Cullen would have had 9 seasons as the head coach. He's currently year to year....

    Finding the right person to fill the role as head of 'Rugby Performance & Development' position will be one of Kevin Potts (CEO) first big decisions.

    Post edited by ionadnapóca on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Does anybody really know the precise role carried out by the Performance Director, aside from enforcing NIE renewal policy to the ire of Ulster fans?



  • Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    From what I understand Nucifora basically runs the show. He isn't involved in coaching but everything else from Academy recruitment up to appointing National team coaches is within his remit. You could slap his portrait on the cover of a 2000AD comic with the text "I AM THE LAW IRFU" and it wouldn't be far wrong.

    He hasn't always gotten good press and I don't know if he'll ever get the recognition but I doubt any one person in any sport in Ireland has delivered so much long term improvement and be in a position to leave as lasting and consequential a legacy as Nucifora.

    If every sporting organisation in Ireland was as well run as the IRFU we'd be World beaters across the board.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    In that case, what does the CEO do?



  • Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Makes Nucifora coffee, gives him shoulder rubs and if we win the world cup - a reach around.

    The CEO wouldn't interact with the actual sports side of the IRFU, they would be a final decision maker on matters of finance, marketing, governance, sponsorship etc - they'd run the organisation from a purely business perspective. Lots of CEO's in the tech world don't have a development or IT background for example.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    The role also has serious clout. All the way from involvement with the senior men's team (advises CEO) through to appointing the CEO's and all of coaches of the provinces and all the way down to national talent squad.

    Cullen would be a great fit to head up that in the IRFU. He knows the system (the pros & the cons), he's not an egoist and i think it helps that he's from the Leinster system.

    It's not good for the long term future of the game in Ireland that the glut of the current Irish team and future Irish team is going to come from Leinster. That's the next challenge for Mr. Rugby Performance & Development to solve.


    We are used to hearing that the Irish centralised system is the envy of the world. Im not so sure about that. Provincially we were naturally a good fit but It hasn't been an overnight success thats for sure. There are still many imperfections but it's come a hell of a long way since '95 - the exodus to Britain in '96, the march on Lansdowne rd in '03, the neglect of the AIL and yet the green shoots of a triple crown in '04 - the first in 19 years.

    When we see the debacle that has unfolded over the water Ireland are certainly on steadier grounds. Lets hope they find the right man.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    So in that case the PD strikes me as being all about rugby philosophy, integrating a vision for both how the game should be played, but also, a pragmatic read on what game can conceivably be played within the context, i.e., Ireland, and how to develop/curate that.

    In which case, the immediate risk that jumps out to me, regarding an "outsider", is that you have someone come in what a vision that just won't work in the Irish context. And it takes us several years of destructive policy to figure that out.

    An insider (like Cullen) will have a better read on what's feasible, but the biggest risk I'd see with a character like that, is basically the opposite. They are almost too empathetic to the context, become pathologically pragmatic, and no concrete plans get adhered to.

    So maybe.... hire one of each?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030



    Not sure I agree with you on the "next challenge" point. Assuming all coaching/recruitment becomes more standard across provinces, the glut of the national side will always be built around the area with the largest population. But already we're seeing proportional improvements around the country, for e.g., if future Irish squads likely feature Casey, Crowley, Edogbo, Coombes, Ahern, Frisch and possibly one of Daly or Nash, on top of the likes of Beirne, Carbery, etc., Munster will be contributing more than their proportional share.

    For me, I think the next big challenge for the Performance Director is going to be how the game responds to the emerging (terrifying) risk of serious neurological conditions, and the litigation pressure associated with same. Getting in front of the likely adaptations to the game, and building a long term playing style around that, will be pivotal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Im not sure if i agree with myself either! Its definitely something that needs to be addressed but not necessarily a critical issue.

    PD is not responsible for concussion related injuries. Thats WR and the union's concern (IRFU CEO).

    The coaches worry about playing style, contact training and disciple to adapt to the new rules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    But the PD hires the coaches, right?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    It was reported that in Nucifora's big state of the union address is early November that his contract was up after the World Cup but he wanted to stay longer but he wanted to be transitioning to his replacement rather than finishing up and have his replacement start when he finished.


    Money stuff. Consulting with Nucifora on money vs rugby decisions.

    I posted a summary of a bunch of things he spoke about during his big address in early November. He has a significant role in everything he spoke about.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119801940/#Comment_119801940



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I reckon Leo would be ideal in Nucifora's position. Leinster should retain him though, he's done very well. Maybe he will get Farrells job when Farrell leaves.

    When is Nucifora leaving? I think he's done fairly well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    His contract is up after the world cup. He expects to add another year but would like it to be with his successor in place and slowly transition his role.

    There's a lot going on that Nucifora is involved in that requires a delicate handover.



  • Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Leo would be an obvious choice bar one glaring factor. Nucifora has no historical ties or allegiance to any of the provinces and given the nature of the role and the need to make tough decisions around player movement his perceived impartiality has allowed him to escape accusations of bias.

    Apart from screwing Ulster for the lols he's generally not overtly favoured any province and even if Leo adopted the same decision making process it would be difficult for him to escape his Leinster shadow.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,710 ✭✭✭ersatz


    it's a fair point but I think this position is very different to a rugby coach or a role like that where someone is often hired because they bring a new vision and have a path to success that they wish to implement. Right now the IRFU seems to already have much of that development and strategy part figured out. As much as anything I'd say they will be looking for continuity and to build on what's been achieved already. The role is one of the few that has visibility into the entire state of rugby on the island and the most important components are (likely) player pathways and coaching talent, so nurturing those and continuing to develop the parts of the system that are working while helping clubs develop in their ability to bring players to the professional track are, I'd say, the most vital parts of the role. Yes, they have a massive say in what players can be brought in from abroad, who gets central contracts, etc. but I doubt Nucifora is down in the weeds about the style of play that should be developed between the provinces and the Irish team, I would say that job is much more concerned with the production line of young players/coaches and how that can be improved and how the IRFU needs to orient itself to maximize success there. I doubt they'll hire someone who wants to make drastic changes to the system that's place.



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