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Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭FraserburghFreddie


    I hope EU standards remain which would possibly be a show stopper in regards to any wonderful trade deal with the US.Who in their right mind wants things like chlorinated chicken?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,883 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Good quote from the talking head: "Trade deals decay over time." So, reality is it's likely they're likely to be worth less than the current projections.

    Rees-Mogg et al want to burn up all those regulations. This keeps coming up. So, with HMG in place, I'd suggest stocking up on Sodium Thiosulfate, which is used as a dechlorinator...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,954 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    The first paragraph in the article makes it clear that the "growth in non-EU trade" it's talking about is recovery from the pandemic slump — nothing to do with Brexit.

    And the notion that a reduction in trade with the EU means a growth in trade with the rest of the world doesn't stand up to scrutiny - erecting barriers to trade with country A does precisely nothing to improve the terms on which you trade with country B. It might make you more desperate to trade with country B, and you might do things like, e.g., lower your prices in the hope of finding a market for stuff you used to sell at higher prices in country A. But it would be insane to see this as a "benefit".

    Brexit does offer the theoretical possibility of negotiating trade deals with third countries that are better than the trade deals the UK can get as a member of the EU, but I think that process has been going on for long enough to see that the idea is a complete bust. The great bulk of the UK's new deals are rollovers of EU deals — the UK has been unable to get better terms. The few deals that are either new or materially different offer trivial advantages, orders of magnitude below what would be required to offset the much worse deal the UK now has with the EU. But even those trivial advantages are not being acheived; overall, as I have already pointed out, since Brexit the UK's trade with non-EU countries has grown less than its trade with EU countries. And trade with both EU and non-EU countries has grown more slowly since Brexit than it did before Brexit.

    There is no trading upside for the UK from Brexit, none. And even most Brexiters have stopped pretending there is. The latest party line is that Brexit has succeeded because the UK is no longer a member of the EU, and is therefore in "control" of its own laws. That is now being defined as success without any associated claim that this "control" will deliver any actual benefit or improvement to the UK's situation. Brexit being implemented on any terms at all and Brexit being a success are, in this understanding of Brexit, the same thing. You can be sure that Brexiters would not be advancing so ludicrous a position if there was any real improvement that they could point to as a result of Brexit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,544 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    From one of the replies:

    Untitled Image

    Shocking stuff. But hey VW is investing in its Bentley plant so it's not all bad news 😉

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,163 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The gaslighting of Johnny Fishmonger and Dave Builder about the evils of red tape was all about rich businessmen looking enviously at the toxic (literally) unregulated practices of the US which could make them richer if only the EU with their inconvenient love of human health would stop getting in the way



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭FraserburghFreddie


    Meanwhile, back in the real world...Perhaps someone should tell Ford they're wasting their time investing in a UK battery plant which will supply Europe according to this link.

    This is in addition to Tees Valley Lithium(nothing to do with British Volt)given the go ahead to build Europe's largest independent lithium hydroxide producing plant.I posted about this last month.

    https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/feu/en/news/2022/12/01/ford-to-increase-investment-at-halewood-to-scale-up-electric-veh.html#:~:text=HALEWOOD%2C%20U.K%2C%201%20December%202022,E%3APRiME%20product%20development%20centre.

    Post edited by FraserburghFreddie on


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,963 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    What's the point here? Seems that this would have been done had the UK remained in the EU.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,151 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Shunning a single market of 450m affluent people right on your doorstep to replace it with exports to countries thousands or tens of thousands of miles away might make sense to the UKIP pensioners, but from a business point of view, it was always downright nuts.

    It's obvious that none of these guys had ever exported anything in their lives.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,163 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Every factory opening is a Brexit bonus as if the rest of us think not one place will ever open in the UK ever again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,136 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    That is to misunderstand the thought process behind Brexit. The idea was never to replace the EU, simply because the EU trade would not be impacted due to the EU needing the UK more than they need the EU.

    The expected outcome of Brexit was to have all the trade positives of the RU without any of the responsibility and at the same time free to get trade deals across the globe and be free to change regulations as they see fit.

    All other countries would accept that the UK knew best and would accept any trade agreement.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,151 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Yes, they saw it as the ultimate "opt out" from the EU. They were so used to opting out of things like the Euro and Schengen, that they thought they could opt out of the EU itself (and things like freedom of movement), but retain all the benefits of membership and not even suffer any consequences.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 893 ✭✭✭timetogo1


    Nobody thinks that though.

    But I understand the Brexiters have to cling on to any positive news, even if its nothing to do with Brexit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭FraserburghFreddie


    Calling out outrageous gaslighting isn't brexity.Its obvious the UK is an important player in the future of European automotive technology.Quite how that seems to evade some is a mystery. Unless they have an agenda,of course..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,163 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The UK will always be an important player in the future of many industries including automotive.

    Its a G7 country of course it's important and no one is denying that.

    But it will not be as important as it would if still in the EU.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭yagan


    The halving of automotive production is staggering, it's impossible to ignore.

    British car production will probably shrink down to domestic demand, and even then it will probably be older production lines that will be discontinued elsewhere, like how the Beetle continued in Mexico and how Dacia produced their own Renault 12 for decades after it had ceased production in France.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,963 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    How is it obvious when car production has halved?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,809 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    And what is left is legacy models mostly. Making batteries in a decade won't bring the closes factories back.

    There are industry rumours that Jaguar has limited time left as a brand, which would be another bodyblow to the industry



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭yagan


    They've already established their EV driverless testing facility in Shannon, so I guess another Brexit win for Ireland. Actual vehicle production moved to Czechia or Slovenia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,490 ✭✭✭tanko


    Is this the best that the deluded Brexiteers can come up with as the UK economy shrinks. What were the benefits of Brexit supposed to be again?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,163 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Does anyone actually still know that brand exists outside of a certain tweedy class trying to project the old school image of the landed gentry.

    Just another midlife crisis mobile for the home counties wealthy.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    How it started.

    image.png

    Note how UK's red lines ruled out Swiss Deal. Also the EU had red lines on parallel strands, so we could threaten to kick the UK out of the €95Bn science program if they acted the maggot over the NIP. And then do exactly that.


    How it's going (Deloitte 2021)

    image.png

    Brexit isn't done because it's a process. The big one is the 2025 comprehensive review of UK-EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement. And the UK continues to burn goodwill by demanding to get new parallel deals which are now being denied to the Swiss.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭FraserburghFreddie


    Let me think...Do I believe your gaslighting or a company like Ford explaining why they're investing in UK technologies and know how. 😀



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,482 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Ford get £30 m from the UK Gov, and EV drive trains can be exported to the EU. Dagenham make diesel engines which will not be made after 2030,

    Do they plan to manufacture cars in the UK?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭FraserburghFreddie


    Most countries offer incentives to companies,whether in direct grants or tax incentives.Nothing unusual there Sam.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭yagan


    They're not alone in investing in production that doesn't rely on the global supply chains. For example when PSA bought Opel/Vauxhall it ramped up investment in basic vans in British plants while reducing investment in cars as vans needed fewer components.

    As is Ford transits are produced in Turkey for the EU market and are covered under the Turkish/EU customs agreement. As yet Britain doesn't have such an agreement but PSA are focused on the most basic production models for the British market until a profitable export agreement with the EU is in effect.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,963 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    So, it's more taxpayer's cash going into the hands of a corporation. I fail to see the Brexit benefits here.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭FraserburghFreddie




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,163 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Will these new factories lead to an overall increase in car manufacturing in the UK or just be one finger in a dam full of holes ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,163 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I'm thinking it would be fun to set up an EU thread and just every day post links to every single new building or piece of investment as an "EU benefit"

    Just imagine how absolutely ludicrous it would sound if I was to bang on about how every single new factory was because of the EU (even if it is true for some)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭FraserburghFreddie


    Fair play to you breezy,it takes cojones to continue posting here on boards after embarrassing yourself by not knowing the difference between British Volt and Tees Valley Lithium.



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