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I am Proud of Being a Conspiracy Theorist

2456718

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,231 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    I can't say too much at present, but Elon musks purchase of twitter is playing the long game. It'll benefit us all in the future.

    Imagine freedom of speech, unadulterated, honest freedom of speech. Scary for some. No shills.



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Pride has always been traditionally considered a sin.

    You shouldn't have pride in anything. It will only cloud your judgement and, when something true really comes along, your ego and "pride" will let that truth slide in favour of what you would prefer to believe; the easy no-think solution.

    This sounds like the absolute pits of denial; a kind of, "I give up with all the opposition against my views, I'm just going to be proud and that's that - the work is done".

    More often than not, by a long margin, conspiracy theories turn out to be wrong. If you have then decided to hedge your bets in favour of something shown to be more wrong than not, then by definition you will be more wrong than not going forward.

    I would request that you reconsider what you invest pride in, because this ain't one of them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,231 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Indeed pride comes before a fall.

    But if you don't fall, how can you learn how to run and avoid obstacles?

    Can you honestly say your mind is open to possibilities and not stagnant due to upbringing and perceived perceptions? I was there and only deal with facts.



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That works both ways, though.

    For instance: there are things conspiracy theorists believe to be true along with everyone else, and only in the future does everyone learn that they were wrong.

    So we cannot be openminded to the point where we consider most viewpoints reasonable.

    And as I say, we also need to look at the odds. Given that the vast majority of conspiracy theories turn out to be wrong or littered with falsehoods, our logic should align with this fact and not in the belief that most things could be a conspiracy.

    Most things actually have a very boring explanation!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,231 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    I'm cool with boring.

    And you're right on both sides. But when the facts fits, the facts fits.

    Might be uncomfortable, but you'll be enlightened.



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  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I remember engaging with conspiracy theorists in the past. It was a cringeworthy experience, to say the least.

    I don't engage in the specific debates anymore. If someone wants to believe a conspiracy theory, more power to them as far as I'm concerned. Like religious beliefs, I just don't want them to try and impose their version of reality on me. All's good and equal that way.

    One thing I did notice with conspiracy theorists is how facts don't really matter. The energy and excitement of the belief matters far more. To take one example of an engagement I had with someone who believed that the moon landings never took place. Fair play to him, he knew the subject inside out. I didn't, as I couldn't care less about reading that much into the subject. But I knew the moon landings happened. When he mentioned this and that and the other, I didn't have an answer. So I went away and briefly identified the actual explanation of the questions he raised. I came back to him and explained these explanations.

    He nodded his head, unsure what to say.

    But then he said the absolute classic, "...but what about [insert new claim]?".

    Undeterred, I went back and found the explanation for that question, too.

    And you can predict what happened next.

    He replied, "...well, okay, but that still doesn't explain [insert new claim]?".

    At this stage, it becomes abundantly clear that facts really don't matter. It's about the belief, and the desire to believe it to be true and the willingness to suspend belief in everything else just to make that belief hold true. He never once accepted any of the explanations. He was more concerned about catching me out on my apparent lack of knowledge on the subject.

    From previous experiences I noticed the same trend.

    When a conspiracy theorist says something like, "...but what about X?", what they really want is for you to say "I don't know". Because when you admit to not knowing something, they can say, "Exactly..." - which gives them some heightened sense of validation of their own belief system, when it does no such thing. Most people want their beliefs challenged to be false, whereas conspiracy theorists really want their beliefs to be true.

    But even if I don't know the answer to their question, it doesn't validate their conclusion. That would involve committing a logical fallacy.

    But yes, that has been my experience.

    Facts are only an occasional convenience, wrapped within a narrative of what someone wants to believe rather than what's most likely the case.

    To be "proud" of that, to act as if this is something that should be respected, is to make a pitiful mistake.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,231 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    But current "accepted "facts"".

    We all learn from questions. An open mind is important. Can people do that. Feel okay with uncomfortable questions?



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If conspiracy theories were largely true, they'd become "mainstream accepted fact" by definition.

    But if that were to happen, someone else would come along and question those new "mainstream accepted facts".

    See the irony of your position?

    There comes a point when people have to accept the world is pretty dull and boring, and only a tiny minority of conspiracy theories - in the very end - turn out to be wholly true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,231 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    So don't question the powers that be? Gotcha.

    Tiny minority proved true are still enough.

    That's why I don't agree with the death penalty. Do you?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭happyoutscan


    Conspiracy theorists are quite similar to professional activists. Losers at life who latch onto these bandwagons as it gives them the notion that they have an importance. They don't, vast majority are losers.



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  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't agree with the death penalty personally, but that's not a conspiracy. Nor did I say that people or organizations should not be questioned.

    But it's a question of proportionality. The moment concern for actual evidence veers into the realm of personal belief, that's where we need to draw the line.

    And as I say, to believe the opposite is not something to be proud of.

    And that exhausts my contribution here. I've said what I wanted to.

    But if conspiracy theories are your thing, by all means continue to believe them, engage with them, and trust them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,231 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    I'm in the minority so. If you've seen what I've seen you'd understand.

    I can't give details yet, but trust me you're not ready for the facts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,231 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Well, I've got out of the frying pan and avoided the kettle. I hope enlightenment finds you soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 545 ✭✭✭Crocodile Booze


    You have what all the paranoid anti-everything people have : a grossly over-estimated opinion of your own intelligence and knowledge.

    Embarrassing, but entertaining.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,231 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'll take the shrill alarm please. Tell us your secrets. How did you manage to get a hold of such information



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 800 ✭✭✭foxsake


    @robinph - yes that is exactly what I said. jaysus wept.

    @moonage - fair play on the reply , somebody can read and you're response is more reasoned that i would have give



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭Big Gerry



    In recent years the term "conspiracy theorist" has becoming meaningless.

    Nowadays a "conspiracy theorist" is just someone who doesn't trust the government.

    There are some people who think the government is their friend were as a conspiracy theorist will view the government as always trying to pull some sort of scam to enrich themselves.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,231 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭Big Gerry



    Its mad how some people think the government actually care about them.

    They see the government as like a parent who may make mistakes but they always have their kids best interests at heart.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,231 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Thats the problem with democracy. Words, promises and bs. Most of society laps it up and then gives out. Actions people!

    The true "dreamers" get sidelined. Trying to shake it up with mad ideas like: truth, honesty and integrity. Dirty words.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It's mad how some people see a complex world in such a simplistic way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭Big Gerry



    When politicians are looking for votes they will have different "policies" depending on who they speaking to.

    They are notorious for telling people on the doorstep stuff that goes against their official party policies.

    Some politicians in Ireland really take the biscuit and will jump on any bandwagon.

    I remember just after the economic crash some FF people had "independent" on their election posters but in the small print it had "Fianna Fáil" on the poster.

    Only in Ireland can you run as a "independent" for public office and stand under a political party at the same time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,240 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    So that means we didnt go to the moon and the earth is flat and UFOs are here?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭Big Gerry



    Who is "we" I had nothing to do with the moon program.

    NASA Nazis allegedly built rockets that went to the moon using 1960s technology but 50 years later they don't even have the tech to go back there but it might to be possible in a few years time.

    It should be an awful lot easier to send manned missions to the moon in the 21st century than it was in the 1960s.

    I can't think of any other big technical achievements that were done and never repeated again for 50 plus years.

    If you had been around when the first alleged moon landing happened you would think 50 years later that going to the moon would be relatively routine now and there would be permanent human bases on the moon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    NASA Nazis allegedly built rockets that went to the moon using 1960s technology but 50 years later they don't even have the tech to go back there but it might to be possible in a few years time.

    Allegedly?

    alleged moon landing

    Woah and again. Not sure what this thread is about exactly, but do you think man didn't land on the moon?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,240 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    We as in humanity - which was obvious from the reference. You have never heard it used that way? We went to the moon? Really?

    Pull the other one.

    China sailed an ocean going tribute fleet pre Columbus to Africa and never repeated it.

    Lots of reasons why a hugely expensive, bespoke, non reusable hand-crafted tech would fall out of favour once the glory of first moon landing was achieved...

    There are lots of people distrustful of governments. That doesnt make them conspiracy theorists. The vast majority of such people dont share the theories you have mentioned and would be horrified for any such connection to be made.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    "YEAH BUT I CAN"T BELIEVE IT SO IT DIDN"T HAPPEN"

    Which is depressingly the subtext I see with a lot of these conspiracy-style beliefs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭Big Gerry



    Yes I heard that term before but "we" is ridiculous when the vast majority of people in the world are not Americans.

    People don't generally take pride in the achievements of other Nations they are not part of.

    If you were a USSR Citizen you probably would feel hard done by that the Americans allegedly got there first and the last thing you would feel is pride.



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  • Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well I for one am convinced by this flawless logic



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