Russia - threadbanned users in OP

In the NATO-Russia founding act and Helsinki accords, Russia has already accepted the principle that Ukraine can join NATO.

NATO-Russia Founding Act covers what weapons systems and bases can be deployed. Those measures are there to avoid escalation and provocation. That is all that Russia is entitled to. This is a canard that has been thoroughly discredited already multiple times on the thread no matter how much whataboutery you try to engage in.

Do you understand how many times Russia broke the Budapest agreements? There is no peace without Ukraine in NATO or under its umbrella. Russia has demonstrated it cannot be trusted to abide by any agreement that is not backed by the threat of overwhelming force.

And your nonsense about Russia being there to protect ethnic Russians was already dismantled yesterday in a direct reply to you which you could offer no response to.

The intrinsic degeneracy of the Horde is apalling.

So there wasn't 27 millions Russians killed after all , Estimated by the Russians

I am not defending neo Nazis or paedophiles and live in Dublin. Your diabtribe has added nothing.

What is your suggestion, keep attacking entrenched russian positions with further huge loss of Ukranian life?

That decision is for Ukrainians to make, not you.

They have clearly made it, and their bravery in that that decision can be either be admired or distained.

I choose to admire it, you choose to ridicule them by posting links to and repeating Russian propaganda.

Yes often to support spurious points.

Shall we ask how many Russians the Soviets killed? If why why not, since you have brought all other kinds of whataboutism to the table.

There you go, you are not here to defend Stalin, yet you wish to discuss every single thing that is completely and utterly irrelevant to the war in Ukraine. Stalin is as relevant as NATO expansion, in other words neither have any relevance yet you want to discuss one but not the other.

You are throwing SHITE out there to deflect the debate so I am simply throwing SHITE back.

Deflecting debate to WW2 Germany, refuses to discuss Stalin. Get a grip!!!

Nope you were deflecting since your first post. Discredited rubbish about NATO expansion. Totally irrelevent garbage, Northern Ireland border was comparable in Size to NATO Russian border until Russia launched into aggressive landgrabs against peaceful nieghbours.

Of course it is their decision and Russia's decision too. Although the USA and UK may also be involved in the decision process..... This is a discussion forum is it not? Maybe you somehow think this is an advisory forum for Ukraine?

That's the thing. It's not Russia's decision because it's not their country.

Talk about deliberately misinterpreting a post just to be offended . Can you reread what Furze99 actually wrote about resilience.

Czech Republic Army Chief Řehka: We would be involved from the first minute if there would be a conflict between Russia and NATO. Army's main priority now should be preparation for a large-scale war against a strong opponent.

Note how many weasel words are deployed in this one post.

You ran away from the post yesterday because you know you have no real comeback other than weasel words, smokescreens and deflections.

"You have seen sources arguing both cases."

Sure you have, how about showing some discernment and deciding for yourself who is lying instead of spreading more 'both sides' relativism and uncertainty here - unless that is your agenda.

"There are countless articles." Countless articles of what veracity? Well? That is proof of nothing. Which version is more compelling and why?

Similarly, why aren't you posting any of the articles that don't call it a coup then? Why are you only ever posting from the side of Russian propaganda cues?

"You don't know how many times Russia broke the Budapest agreement"?

Strange you don't seem bothered to educate yourself on this fundamental document to Ukraine-Russia relations when you are oh so faux concerned about Ukraine ceasefire violations...

Read the NATO-Russia Founding Act. That is a signed international treaty between NATO and Russia which supersedes any oral discussions. NATO broke no commitments to Russia. There are no NATO forces permanently stationed East of Germany as per the commitments given. There are no NATO weapons systems stationed anywhere that would violate that treaty.

The Founding Act states that all signatories, including Russia, will work with “the aim of creating in Europe a common space of security and stability, without dividing lines or spheres of influence limiting the sovereignty of any state” and respect “the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security.”

Russia has signed international treaties which allow Ukraine, as a sovereign state, to choose the means to ensure its security ie join NATO.

Russia has violated the commitments it gave in this treaty, not NATO.

Just as it violated Budapest.

So can you give us good reasons why a Ukraine not in NATO should trust Russia to abide by any future peace treaty?