Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

He sits too deep and doesn’t square up the defence. Like last week, we would just end up shuffling from side to side.

no please do point out the errors, there arent any so id like to see what youre talking about.

i dont like carbery at 10, ive said it many times, hes a 15 and hes done nothing to deserve being the starting 10 for munster

did i say it was solely carberys fault? no, i didnt. i was responding to the idea that munster were 'very lucky to have carbery'- why? why are they lucky? theyve won nothing so what difference has he made? he played well in maybe two euro games in his first seaon and since then hes been average

not every AIL 10 was a big part of the first win against the NZ 20s

Johnny Holland is one more that comes to mind; if he didn’t have his injury issues, I think there’s a decent chance Carbery doesn’t sign for Munster.

But I’d agree overall. There was a lot of excitement around Carbery joining Munster at the time.

And initially at least, things seemed to be going well. In particular, he came back from a brief injury in the December and put 4-5 quality performances together, iirc, getting MOTM in 2 of them and not missing a place-kicking in something like 20 attempts.

TheN he got injured in the Jan/Feb and missed practically 2 full years (with the odd failed comeback attempt in between). He hasn’t quite seemed the same player since.

I still think "Form" Stockdale competes with Lowe for the 11 jersey.

unfortunately we haven’t seen form Stockdale in 3 years now. Like for Carberry injuries seem to be destroying him.

Agree with all that and I wouldn't make any great claims about Carbery’s success at Munster.

None of this can posthumously turn mediocre players good though. The poster I was replying to says JJH should have in Ireland squads, or that a guy who never rose above fourth choice at Munster would somehow have been a star if not for Carbery. These are just bad players.

He ain't perfect but Carbery has been the only game in town. Fingers crossed Crowley can challenge that because Healy won't, I'll tell you that now.

He’s played more at FB than at 10 in those games. He’s played at 10 ahead of Healy all of once this season.

Both things things are true but you’re overlooking that they’re also very related.

If we didn’t have such significant injury problems, necessitating Crowley to fill in at 15, I’d have fully expected Crowley to be selected more frequently ahead of Healy.

And it also overlooks the impact the EI tour had in selections, and not just in games that were missed; games either side were likely affected too. I think that’s why Healy was selected against Cardiff for example; for some continuity in what was a new attack shape.

Ultimately I think it’s pretty clear Crowley will be ahead of Healy come CC time tbh.

I’d hope so. But that has only happened since the EI tour (assuming that it has). Akrasia was responding to me basically saying that Frawley was ahead of Crowley because Crowley wasn’t a live option until the EI tour, an opportunity he got because Frawley was injured. Quite how anyone can think that Crowley is level with Carbery in the depth chart is astounding tbh. He’s in the process of taking over Healy. That’s about it.

He could be at Munster; I think it's unlikely, but we just don't know yet.

In the same way that Andy Farrell doesn't always go by the Provincial pecking order in his selections, that can work both ways too.

Hanrahan is a good player, despite numerous significant setbacks he's currently a starting URC out half and he played nearly every game for Clermont last season. He was unlucky with both Foley and Van Graan, neither coach suited his game at all. Most guys who are cast aside by Munster flame out of top level rugby, while he has persistantly been recruited and got game-time.

Who would you class as elite Irish winger?