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So "X" - nothing to see here. Elon's in control - Part XXX

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭kerplun k


    The guy (Frohnhoefer) is probably a savage engineer, Even if he's the top dev in his area, Musk was absolutely right to fire him. You can't openly criticise your boss like that. I'm thinking Frohnhoefer wanted to be fired and was looking for a severance package.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,612 ✭✭✭Cordell




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,946 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    clearly in management then. Management make bad decisions and then blame the developers who have to implement those decisions.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,837 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Not necessarily - If every year you put forward a plan for $10M of investment for closing Tech Debt and new development , but they only give you $5m there's only so much you can do not matter how good of an engineer you are.

    And given Twitters finances over the years I sincerely doubt that they've been getting their full IT budgets every year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,612 ✭✭✭Cordell


    You asked "as a developer" and yet you still conclude "in management". You would be a good match for pre-Musk Twitter ;)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,156 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    yes, mcafee may have been so when he was younger, but life, and plenty of drugs, got the better of him, eventually making him a nutcase, unfortunately we could be watching the downfall of musk here, yes he done some incredibly things with tesla and space x, but he could very well be bankrupt at the end of this, its very unlikely he ll save twitter here.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,946 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    you must have worked for some magical companies if you have never had restrictions placed on the work you do. magical as in fantasy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,612 ✭✭✭Cordell




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I think you're debating from a slightly unrealistic level of expectations WRT Tech Debt and that giant umbrella of "Making Code Better". Not everything's a question of competency, rather than of compromise and what's possible within the given timeframe, budget or priority. There's clearly a problem going on a Twitter, but it's doubtful it's a single point of failure - though thanks to Musk's idiot management with the arbitrary firings these problems are ultimately going to get worse as developers (presumably) multitask their ownerships.

    TBH from the dev's comments it sounds like the ball is being dropped at the server level 'cos as I said, there's only so much an interface can do while it waits for slow servers to respond. I'd be slow to "blame" the Android team when it's clear they know the problem is happening at a point they can't contribute.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,612 ✭✭✭Cordell


    My expectations from senior engineers is not just good code, it's also leadership, and planning and influencing the decision making from the technical perspective. And of course this single guy is not the root cause of all Twitter's failures, but he's definitely part of the problem - well, not anymore. And yes things are going to get a lot worse under Musk, but that's the only hope to get better, even though there's no guarantee.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Ok, we need to stick one field here to try to make it easier to rationalise: if we stick to Senior Engineers, then what do you expect them to do beyond constantly asking for the time and runway to fix things? I don't think you can fairly call him part of the problem when for all we know he brings up these issues every single Retrospective Meeting. Aside from anything else, it's not necessarily a Senior Engineer's job to plan or influence decision-making - not sure where you work but seniors tend to only have very limited power there. They can suggest, but rarely influence - especially in a corporate environment.

    There are undoubtedly bad developers - again, worked with them plenty of times and they're not always aware of their badness - but a top-down structure tends to ensure that if there's a rot, it starts at the summit - not in the trenches.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,612 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Fair enough if he couldn't do anything about it, but still he stayed there for 6 years. So he was part of the problem, sometimes you can't be part of the solution and what remains is just to stop being part of the problem. He didn't make that choice so Musk made it for him.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Ah here. People have bills and mortgages to pay; a family to feed; I dunno, a drug habit to maintain. If you're now gonna attack how long he worked there for, we're on a hiding to nothing and does start to seem like you're determined to just blame him for something. It's not Auschwitz we're discussing, his very presence doesn't make him culpable for the sins of the app. Sins, I might add, we're both presuming and spitballing about.here

    Maybe he was happy to just coast along and not think the app was that bad ... ... until of course some colossal díckhead started trash-talking his work in public like he's ... well, incompetent. I can understand why someone's dander might rise if their ostensible boss started dumping on their work - from a point of technical ignorance n' all. One thing to work within the constraints of the system - another to have the system then shít on you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,612 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Well since he went all out on the CEO I guess he wasn't worried about feeding his family. In any case working on a bad product is a career damaging decision, but then again, so it's what he did. But you're right, we're presuming too much here, better stop. I'm sure Musk will do something else soon :)



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The way Musk is revealing his tech obsolescence, I expect him to next declare Twitter was going back to HTML4 support only, cos everything afterwards was bloat and affectation.

    Mind you, his fans would probably applaud that too, reckon Netscape's death was a liberal conspiracy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I'm sure he will but I'm not holding out much faith. My employer is the dep of energy in the US, specifically the Dep of Renewable Energy. They deal with Tesla all the time. His engineers think little of Elon and there's huge turnover numbers at the company. He's cushioned from most of the effects of this by large amounts of money but he isn't running Tesla or Twitter effectively.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,770 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,941 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Hope they got a good severance package built into their contract.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,272 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Glad to see Elon having the craic as his company which he paid $44B for two weeks ago swirls down the toilet and he is sacking people left right and centre and advertises leave in their horades.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    You'd like to think all those folks who have been rehired had the nous or ability to get some extra cheddar, severance and guardrails for coming back. Once bitten, twice shy n' all that. But in many respects, the damage will have been done here: it's very difficult to create a productive, inclusive and collaborative working environment - but it's really easy to destroy one.

    For all the publicised returnees and chest-beating, I wonder how many devs, managers and so on read an email from HR inviting them to come back, thought for a second, then worded a polite version of "... please fúck off". If I were turfed out of a job that arbitrarily, I'd think twice about returning if I didn't have immediate financial pressures.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,067 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,566 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    That is one bone china fragile massive ego.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,612 ✭✭✭Cordell


    If you don't respect (respect, not like) the CEO of the company you're working for you should be looking for another company to work for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,946 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,612 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Free speech is not affected, only the employment status is.



  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jesus people really will defend anything this guy does.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,946 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    A CEO is not a King or Queen; if they can't deal with some semi-public trash talking by employees they probably shouldn't run a company. They're not owed allegiance of respect by dint of being top of the tree. You think every Amazon employee respects Jeff Bezos? Even the ones peeing in bottles and whatnot?

    I draw the line at trash-talking on a public service, but hunting across internal Slack? That's nonsense, a borderline invasion of "privacy" and all that reads like a bunch of Class Action Lawsuits waiting to happen.



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