Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

AbusesToilets · 08-11-2022 05:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849873#Comment_119849873

I had high hopes for him, but he's consistently failed to deliver to the required standard. He was particularly poor last Friday. You can say whatever you like about it being a scratch team, but he looked abject. We hear the knock against players like Cooney, who never get a chance, that they're great at club level but not good enough for international rugby. Coombes could well be in that category

aloooof · 08-11-2022 05:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849904#Comment_119849904

Cooney is 32. Coombes is 24. They're at entirely different points in their career.

And Coombes has gone well in Europe in the past.

To get "his does shag all in the other 90+ metres" based on last Friday's game is ridiculous.

AbusesToilets · 08-11-2022 05:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849938#Comment_119849938

Hyperbolic perhaps but that's what's on tape. NZ were an equally scratch team and played us off the park.

I hope he can come back again and perform, but to date he's not it

aloooof · 08-11-2022 05:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849951#Comment_119849951

It's a single game. It's the equivalent of watching him vs Toulouse and thinking he should be European player of the year.

(I'm pretty sure you know it's a silly suggestion too)

Dubinusa · 08-11-2022 05:30PM

Timoney was gash! But he's very athletic and has played v NZ. It's possible that Faz wants faster players? I expect to see Timoney play this week.

Coombes is in a bad situation. Hescompeting with Conan and Doris for the starting shirt. He's competing with Deegan for the fringe minutes. I think Conan and Doris are better players and Deegan without his run of injury, could have been in the top 2.

Either way, the depth at 8 is insane. No one even mentions Boyle! Another good player. Timoney also plays 8 and 6, at a high level. Similar to Jordi a few years ago. I think Coombes could get back into the reckoning and the match this week is a chance to impress. A gnarly big Bokke pack, no better proving ground.

Podge_irl · 08-11-2022 07:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849780#Comment_119849780

Deegan has never been neck and neck with Conan and Doris. He has been consistently behind them and Doris very, very quickly overtook him.

sydthebeat · 08-11-2022 07:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849951#Comment_119849951

Ireland were even more "scratch" than that NZ team. They had two training sessions together. Ross molony didn't even train with the squad.

They were certainly out of their confirm zone and deliberately so by all accounts.

On coombes, he has the physically and traits to be a top level player, but there's are some minor deficiencies in his game which may stop him reaching those very top levels if he doesn't deal with them. As said already he's still young enough onto his career, even though he's nearly 25. It's unfair to compare some players with what's produced at leinster schools because some players come out of schools practically at pro levels in leinster, and that's just not possible in other provinces, thus some players needed an extra season or two to be comparable

clsmooth · 08-11-2022 08:10PM

Coombes is an interesting one. He was talked up last year as a live option for the 23 in the AI but was unlucky with injury and has been at various times since. I wasn’t particularly impressed with him in first test against Māori in the summer but he was much improved for the second game.

One concern I’d have with him is his dynamism. He’s a big strong lad with a powerful close in game but he’s more like Rhys Ruddock than Doris/Conan which doesn’t seem to be what Farrell and co are looking for.

I say that as a big fan of Rhys Ruddock so that’s no slight on Coombes but Ruddock is a player who has been there or thereabouts for 10 years+ but never nailed down a position as he found himself behind more dynamic players and also had unfortunate timing with injury.

AbusesToilets · 08-11-2022 08:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119850284#Comment_119850284

That's not a fair assessment of Deegan imo. He was very much in the mix until he got injured.

Podge_irl · 08-11-2022 08:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119850556#Comment_119850556

In the mix and neck and neck are not the same thing however. He was behind Conan - I did think that he might overtake him at one point, but then Doris came up and rapidly overtook them both while Conan managed to solidify his game to the point of being the Lions 8.

Deegan is not and never has been at either of their levels.

aloooof · 08-11-2022 08:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119850517#Comment_119850517

I think Coombes is more powerful than Ruddock (just look at his try scoring record, especially from 5m) and has a better handling game, too.

I think it’s things more in the defensive side of his game (like his tackling) that’s seen him dropped.

bingobango12 · 08-11-2022 09:15PM

ye

bingobango12 · 08-11-2022 09:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119848553#Comment_119848553

Yeah I agree with what you have said there. Realistically it is Doris’ position now with the Lions starting 8 behind him so will be hard to shift for either Deegan or Coombes but the more competition for places the better

AbusesToilets · 08-11-2022 10:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119850565#Comment_119850565

Doris overtaking him coincided with him getting injured, which gave Doris more game time. Which is different from Doris simply blowing past him, yes?

sprucemoose · 08-11-2022 10:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849904#Comment_119849904

the nicest thing i could say about your first sentence is that its hyperbolic at best.....

pickarooney · 08-11-2022 10:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119850284#Comment_119850284

How can you overtake someone when you're behind them?

Doris and Deegan absolutely were neck and neck for a season until various injuries at different times meant they weren't competing for the same spot.

All_in_Flynn · 08-11-2022 11:47PM

Watched the game again. Level of physicality was ridiculous at times. South Africa were going all out here. They were trying to lay down a marker. They looked a bit shook when they got no change out of a couple of those mauls and scrums. I think the post match whining is telling.

I'll reiterate that if you can sustain them physically, then they don't have a whole lot else bar a grubber kick. We didn't even play that well. I think we are a better team and if we are on our game we will beat them in the world cup unless something goes drastically wrong on the day. I was even more impressed with Ryan on second viewing. He was very clever all day.

TRC10 · 08-11-2022 11:56PM

SA will be a much better team at the World Cup. So will NZ, Wales, France, Argentina, England and Australia. We need to keep innovating and improving, not stand still like 4 years ago. And hopefully unearth one or two more players. The SA game and the summer series will mean f*ck all if we embarrass ourselves at the world cup again. Our scrum and lineout both have massive room for improvement IMO. I'd also be concerned about how easily SA shut down our attack. We need to become better at executing against that sort of defence. I think we need to win the Slam next year. We haven't won a 6N yet under Farrell, we have England and France at home, and Scotland and Wales look pretty average right now. It's the next logical progression from what we've achieved this year. Anything less than that, and we'll have gone backwards IMO.

ersatz · 09-11-2022 12:11AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119851387#Comment_119851387

I think there is a lot of room for improvement in this team but the SA game was an important bench mark, first time we've seen this team combine real smarts with heavy doses physicality. It's the kind of game we've lost in recent years. For me the two tries were fantastic, a maul try agains that pack is great and then a slick backline move from broken play and turnover. We had less than a minute in their 22 so living off scraps but smart and resilient enough to make it count.

All_in_Flynn · 09-11-2022 12:14AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119851387#Comment_119851387

Will they be a much better team come the world cup? I'm not so sure. I think you will get more of the same from them. They'll play for penalties at set piece time and if they don't get it they begin to look fairly blunt. I don't think they 'shut down' our attack. A lot of our players are not up to speed this season yet. We didn't play well and still won. I think South Africa will be very worried after that.

sydthebeat · 09-11-2022 12:22AM

I think sa are making the mistake of thinking just because they did it three years they can do it again next year.

Their squad profile hasn't changed much in the last 3 years and they're style certainly hasn't.

At this stage they are in danger of going into rwc with a stale squad, stale coaches and stale playing style

Former Former Former · 09-11-2022 08:07AM

Worth remembering that SA won the last RWC but absolutely weren't the best team in the tournament.

They have such a massive pool of players that they can always change things up and turn things around but as of now, not too worried about them to be honest

Wegians89 · 09-11-2022 08:31AM

Would like to see the following half back combinations over the next two weeks:

Fiji:

9 JGP (think he’ll play for match fitness)

10 Carbery

21 Blade

22 Crowley

Australia :

9 Casey

10 sexton

21 JGP

22 Frawley / Crowley

Podge_irl · 09-11-2022 12:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119851147#Comment_119851147

Doris is younger? He obviously came into the squad behind Deegan but he remained there for an incredibly short amount of time and it became clear very quickly he is a significantly better player. Only injuries stopped Doris becoming a mainstay quicker.

Dubinusa · 09-11-2022 02:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119852770#Comment_119852770

That's most likely true. However, Deegan brings a lot too. Between the 3 Leinster 8's there's plenty of top level talent. I think Deegan could be a wildcard for the world cup.

09-11-2022 02:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119851147#Comment_119851147

I don't really think this is true tbh. From a long way off it was clear Doris was destined for the first team at Leinster at least.

sydthebeat · 09-11-2022 02:36PM

not sure its been mentioned here in a big way yet, but fair dues to another Birr man, Michael Milne, in getting to be training with the test squad ahead of the fiji game.

Although i probably expect Healy to start with loughman on the bench, i wouldn't be overly surprised to see both porter and healy rested as Porter has played quite a number of games over the last 8 weeks, and healy is 104.

Milne impressed against those SA sides on the EI tour, and that Fiji scrum wouldnt exactly put fear into you as a weapon of theirs.

arsebiscuits1 · 09-11-2022 03:09PM

Furlong announced as captain this weekend. No team named yet.

Unusual to announce the captain without the team.

And unusual it's Tadgh. Partly because he hasn't captained before but mostly because I'm surprised he's playing at all!

Either way it's undoubtedly an enormous honour for him and he should be very proud!

Congrats Tadgh.

Shehal · 09-11-2022 03:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119853163#Comment_119853163

Im not surprised to be honest. Yes he's probably a good bit off being in the conversation for an Irish cap, will probably need to go back to Leinster and show his worth first, but looking at his build and style of play he is just the type of LH Andy Farrell would like. His size is what gives him the edge over Wycherley who's just as talented but probably needs to fill out a bit more before he's in the conversation for an Irish cap.

Burkie1203 · 09-11-2022 04:07PM

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1590349876013027329?t=9QK0XFJPoJAhClPL1o2MxQ&s=19

lol

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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