Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Former Former Former · 07-11-2022 06:46PM

I'm open to correction, but he's the only player dropped from the original senior squad?

This is a management team which brought a heap of guys to South Africa for a very dubious tour right in the middle of the URC. If they want to see what a guy can do, they want to see it in a green jersey.

starkid · 07-11-2022 06:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846082#Comment_119846082

its hardly a cop out, given coaches have preferences. and he had a very good game against the Maoris in NZ. Deegan didn´t. so he clearly did show them something. Deegans a solid player, but like many Leinster players there is rose tinted glasses. He´s grand like. Coombes has had very big European games. He had a big game against the Maoris, assisting two tries.

SOme players faces clearly don´t fit. McCloskey is a prime example. he has been shoddily treated by Schmidt and Farrell has been slow to use him. Obviously Henshaw is World Class so thats one issue. All i´m saying is i think Coombes will be one of those players. It won´t matter given Doris is now undisputed first choice.

Dropping Coombes is incredibly harsh. and if there is one criticism to be had of Irish rugby (like under so many coaches) there is inconsistent decisions. Coombes hardly the only player to dirty his bib. There has been poor performances over the last while by any number of players in any number of matches and it didn´t result in them getting the chop.

again it doesn really matter in the grand scheme of things. you´d just hope it doesn´t affect his munster form and standing.

Irish rugby can´t be cribbing about size and then sidelining a mobilish 6,6 115kg backrow, or a 6,4 110kg centre.

he´s clearly not offering what Ireland want. We are looking for versatile, mobile players, with quick vision. Coombes is a slogger with a decentish pass. The great number eights are all rangy, quick, slick handlers, and good carriers.

Heś just another in a ling line of big Irish units that for whatever reason doesn´t conform to what we expect in an Irish player. and maybe have a soft underbelly despite the size.

Brennan, Costello, Casey, Browne, Buckley and so on.

Luckily now we are playing quick mobile rugby, not trying to match teams. We seem to be going a path of having guys slot in. Does Deegan slot in better for Doris. Does O´Brien slot in better for Keenan. sharing similar traits and the like. take Lowry, he is a more jazzy rugby player but maybe JOB slots in better.

It makes sense i suppose.

I feel Deegan needs big games to justify the faith shown in him. its a long time since the Junior WC hype and he´s effectively third choice 8 at Leinster.

I expect Coombes to have a huge game on Thursday and its possibly a challenge laid down by Andy. Maybe he doesn´t drop him completely if there is no Munster game.

awec · 07-11-2022 06:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846224#Comment_119846224

He's the only one dropped, but you must also consider that Munster are the only team playing this weekend.

But yes, the likes of Nash and Crowley etc were retained and I'm sure Munster would have liked them back.

07-11-2022 07:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846152#Comment_119846152

The initial comment called him "one of the best passing backrowers in Ireland", which is a stretch I think. I didn't say he's not capable, but it's hardly his core game.

sprucemoose · 07-11-2022 07:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846082#Comment_119846082

mccloskey cant play 10 if stuck, thats a part of it

and rory scannell is/was a very underrated player, his form fell off a bit of a cliff when munster decided to just use him to carry rather than actually use his strengths, but he is a very talented player when he is allowed to play as a second 10 - similar to frawley but less physical

aloooof · 07-11-2022 07:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846310#Comment_119846310

His offloading is certainly part of his core game tho, tbh.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 07-11-2022 07:08PM

There's 7 Munster players in the 39 man squad. I'd expect all of them (except maybe Nash) to feature between the two remaining games.

Frawley is injured so I reckon Crowley will get the 22 shirt vs Fiji.

Murray is injured so Casey is one of two scrumhalves.

Carberry will probably start vs Fiji.

Loughman could well start vs Fiji. No reason for Porter to start and we want to blood what looks to be our 3rd choice LH.

Beirne and O'Mahoney could well feature vs Fiji but will definitely start vs Australia.

07-11-2022 07:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846235#Comment_119846235

Ah, that good old trope again, claiming it's bias in favour of Leinster based players.

I'm sure with some guys there personality clashes etc, or something like that behind the scene, but for the most part, there isn't some massive mystery. The coaches are in the business of winning, they're going to pick the guys who they think gives them the best chance of doing that, so if they aren't picking a guy it's because they don't feel he can deliver what they want for him, or they think others are better at delivering (or bring more overall to the party).

07-11-2022 07:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846324#Comment_119846324

Scannell has never been an international quality player imo. Solid URC level player at best.

sprucemoose · 07-11-2022 07:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846405#Comment_119846405

incorrect but given how he has been used at munster for the last few seasons its understandable

07-11-2022 07:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846416#Comment_119846416

It's not incorrect though. He's a good passer and distributor but hardly elite, has no particular pace to speak of, and is undersized and lacking physicality. He's got a decent kicking game, but nothing special. A solid pro, but that's it.

Dubinusa · 07-11-2022 08:16PM

I think Deegan is the type of lad Faz likes. Fast , skillful and has been in the system. It's worth remembering he missed an entire season with injury. Coombes played very well when Deegan was out.

Coombes while strong, does not get around the field like Deegan. Timoney also was poor on Friday. He's still with the squad and I think it's because of his athletic ability.

Maybe Coombes will be back soon? I would think Deegan gets into the xx111 this week.

snow mad · 07-11-2022 08:24PM

unfair for an individual if that was the case considering how the whole team played.

but consoderimg the amount of good options for the back row it's hard to see anyone out of form or carrying a niggle travelling

Dubinusa · 07-11-2022 08:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846676#Comment_119846676

Possibly! But, Coombes may just not be the kind of player Faz wants or needs. I'd say McCloskey is in a similar situation. He only plays at 12. Others like Aki can play both center positions.

I reckon a lad like Hodnett or Kendellen would suit Farrell.

cuttingtimber22 · 07-11-2022 08:38PM

I saw this very balanced South African analysis from Saturday. Posted on the match thread but useful here also I think.

https://twitter.com/thalamsutu77/status/1589559494149042178?s=46&t=Sh-kBv7wPpx1DwwpIEL6lw

TRC10 · 07-11-2022 08:46PM

One thing we know for absolute certain, is that Farrell values performance in the Ireland environment above anything else when it comes to Ireland selection (very similar to Eddie Jones). That's training performance, Emerging Ireland games, 'A' games and full internationals. And Calvin Nash clearly impressed them enough to be kept on this week rather than being released to play v SA 'A'. So that's pretty brutal for Coombes. Not saying I agree or disagree, but he's been dropped.

07-11-2022 08:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846053#Comment_119846053

If his objective is too get a mention in the next Munster rugby themed musical production then he's in the right place. If his objective is to get to the RWC then he 10000% isn't.

sprucemoose · 07-11-2022 09:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846783#Comment_119846783

alone it stands isnt really a musical though

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846476#Comment_119846476

he has a very good kicking game. he also has distance similar to murray off the tee. hes not a big player but hes not lacking in physicality for the game he should be playing. of course hes not elite but hes international standard

RichieRich_89 · 07-11-2022 09:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846735#Comment_119846735

I think that time when the ball goes out to Hansen is a rare case of Sexton picking the wrong option. I think if he gives it to Baloucoune he's through a gap. Arendse seems to have his momentum going more towards Keenan.

07-11-2022 09:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846855#Comment_119846855

We'll have to agree to disagree. As Irish centres go, I would rank him behind all of: Robbie Henshaw, Garry Ringrose, Bundee Aki, Stuart McCloskey, Ciaran Frawley, Stewart Moore, Tom Daly, David Hawkshaw, Chris Farrell, Tom Farrell, James Hume, Jamie Osborne and Luke Marshall.

He's a similar level to Dan Goggin.

No point going around in circles on this though, we're obviously not going to agree.

snotboogie · 07-11-2022 09:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846017#Comment_119846017

Ya for sure. He doesn’t often attempt the type of pass he pulled off against Leinster but he’s a major distributor in the Munster pack.

07-11-2022 09:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846855#Comment_119846855

alone it stands isnt really a musical though

This changes everything.

aloooof · 07-11-2022 10:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846783#Comment_119846783

If his objective is too get a mention in the next Munster rugby themed musical production....

And you know we'd sell that out as well. ;)

Akrasia · 07-11-2022 11:50PM

Doris was excellent on Saturday, He's undropable at 8. Coombes is gonna have to come back to Munster and play his game and show his value

It will probably take a couple of injuries for Gav to get another proper opportunity in green.

bingobango12 · 08-11-2022 12:14AM

Strange comments around Leinster and rose tinted glasses. Deegan is having a good season for the team at the top of the table, along with doing well on Friday. Coombes played poor on Friday and has played three times this season for the team in 14th. Not too sure who needs to take off the glasses here.

Akrasia · 08-11-2022 12:19AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119847695#Comment_119847695

Sure why not play the entire Leinster team in green for the RWC

ersatz · 08-11-2022 12:26AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846049#Comment_119846049

I love these contributions, starts with speculation stated as fact (Coombes defo dropped), that fact leads to an insight..Coombes, in his misfortune as a Munster player is shown the door while Deegan (no better) gets the girl. Rassie level.

Wegians89 · 08-11-2022 12:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119845883#Comment_119845883

The Irish coaches would rather players train in camp and play against curry cup b teams than to play URC. Don’t think being sent to play South Africa a rather than a test match is a good sign

Wegians89 · 08-11-2022 12:36AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846009#Comment_119846009

Don’t think Bundee looked bad defensively against the All blacks. He has been terrible for Connacht though

AbusesToilets · 08-11-2022 03:33AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119847777#Comment_119847777

From what I remember, he struggled in the Maori game, positioning was poor. Got burned on the outside a number of times

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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