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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭ Everleigh Freezing Oasis


    Have just seen it pointed out Scott Penny not there, he could just be behind the players selected but also could be with the senior squad for the Bok game, especially if VdF a doubt. He played well on the EI tour, think he had two starts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,378 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Big chance for Frawley to stake a claim for the 22 jersey in a test game. Potentially even a start against Fiji if it goes well.

    McCloskey is probably earmarked for that game too if he isn't in the A squad. Starting two 13's instead. Big chance for Jamie Osborne. Has impressed me a lot when playing for Leinster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,103 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    The replacement props have more caps than the entire starting XV.

    On a related note, glad to see Moore back in the frame, even in a limited way. Don't know what happened back in the day but he's too good to be out in the cold any longer.



  • Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nah, I really doubt that. Can't see Penny making the jump straight into an Irish 7 shirt, even if VDF can't go. You'd have to figure Timoney would have gotten the nod then.

    It's unlucky for Penny, who has been excellent this year, but it's super competitive there.

    I'm more concerned about our second row tbh. If Beirne can't go and we have a combo of Ryan, Baird & Treadwell, you'd have to say that's an especially lightweight second row trio. It is telling though that probably the form second row in Irish domestic rugby this season hasn't made the Springboks 23.

    We're going to have a lot of guys very light on game experience this season with Keenan & JGP having played zero minutes, and Furlong only having had 40 mins v Connacht.

    I'm curious to see McCloskey not part of that A selection too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,113 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    They have the same amount of caps. 58 each, although Stockdale has 35 of that 58.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,103 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I'm curious to see McCloskey not part of that A selection too.

    If the senior wings are Baloucoune and Hansen (as looks very likely), then McCloskey is the only fit outside back left to don the 23 jersey against South Africa.



  • Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah, you're right.

    Unusual choice for the 23 shirt given his lack of versatility, but I guess his physicality will be a plus if introduced.

    If Hugo pulls up lame early on, we're going to have quite the rejig (presumably Joey to 15?)



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    That's the simplest swap for Keenan , the other alternative would be Hansen to 15 , Ringrose to wing and McCloskey into centre.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    Hansen or Henshaw could play 15 if needed. Particularly the former



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,378 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Henshaw has never played 15 for Ireland ever.

    If he had I'm sure it would have been disastrous. But since he hasn't it's fine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Doubt he did enough to leapfrog Timoney though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    ha yes lets pretend it never happened, it was a car crash alright. I'd actually say he'd do better there now, he seems to have got back the zip he was missing that year.

    I'd imagine Hansen is the option here, say if Joey came on 15 but moved to ten to close the game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,004 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Has Frawley been ruled out for the SA game?

    edit: i see he's in A team!



  • Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You think he's going to play against the Maori on Friday night and then bench against the Springboks 24 hours later?



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    yeah, hes starting against New Zealand A

    he'll only get into the game against SA if theres an injury before the kick of the friday game



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,004 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca



    I also see Marty Moore is on the bench for A game.

    Calling Ulster men - Is Tom O'Toole a better scrummager than Marty Moore? And what is he like in the loose?

    No room for Doak in A squad. Farrell does not like Ulster SH's!!

    Would have loved if they started with Jack Crowley in the A game. He has the potential to leapfrog Carbery in the full squad...If he gets the chance!



  • Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I would have had Doak in there (and Casey in the full squad), but it's not surprising not to see him given he wasn't in this squad originally.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,004 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    that true i suppose. I would have had Doak in the full squad....if/as he should have been in the squad that went to NZ.

    Doak, Moore and Crowley are three players i felt that should have been given scope to impress with the full squad this Nov. They all might be needed for WC squad if there are injuries at SH,TH and FH.

    Maybe we'll see them for Fiji and Aus games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Unusual choice for the 23 shirt given his lack of versatility

    It doesn't seem to be something that's puts Farrell off his selections for the 23 jersey. I think all of Chris Farrell, Henshaw, Hume and Aki have been named in the 23 shirt during his tenure.

    (I'd be interested to see a breakdown of his 23 jersey selections tbh, but a material % have been centres).

    EDIT:

    If Hugo pulls up lame early on, we're going to have quite the rejig (presumably Joey to 15?)

    And ya, Joey to 15 is exactly what I would guess would happen to limit the re-jigging as much as possible.

    We saw as much in the Sharks game; with Larmour's injury, Leinster could've put Ngatai to FB, JOB to wing and Ringrose to centre, but instead chose to put Ringrose to the wing for a single change.

    Post edited by aloooof on


  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Well the very best thing Moore and Crowley can do is to take their chance in a very hard challenge of playing New Zealand A.

    if they can impress in this game, they certainly are doing all they can for RWC 23 which happens in 10 months time.



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  • Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah, you're right. He's predominantly gone that way. The only non-centres to be picked there are Earls & Larmour under him I think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭Zeugnis


    Henshaw started at 15 against England in the 6N 2019. It was part of the pre-Keenan hunt to replace RK, and also involved temporarily screwing up Larmour's trajectory...


    (edited to add... i seem to have missed some sarcasm...)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Had a quick look; he's selected a winger 16 times, a centre 11 times (tho wasn't entirely sure what bucket to put Will Addison in. Maybe the "injured" one at this stage...).

    image.png

    Interesting to see the distrubution more evenly spread for centres than wingers, but that could be down as much to injuries as anything.

    Taking out Tier 2 games (Georgia and USA), it's 11:14, so a fairly even spread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    and also involved temporarily screwing up Larmour's trajectory...

    Larmour was actually Farrell's starting 15 in his first 6 Nations, so he had an opportunity under Farrell. (During which Keenan started to appear on the wing. By the time the ANC came round, Keenan was moved to FB and hasn't looked back since).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,004 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Yes that makes sense. It would be better if they were starting those games though! They have the greater ceiling/ability to really push for senior squad. O'Toole and Frawley? With respect they aren't and haven't been the guys that are pushing Beahlam or Carbery for the backup slot.

    The Frawley at 10 is a particular head scratcher to me. I think he's a really good player but he's simply not going to get enough minutes at 10 with Leinster to make this a worthwhile venture.

    When something happens to Sexton its going to fall to the Byrnes at Leinster. And Carbery for Ireland.

    If something happens to Carbery at Munster it's going to fall to Crowley at Munster. And thus Crowley for Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Delighted to see Craig Casey get the captains's armband, fwiw. Despite Munster's issue this season, he's probably been our best player, and seems to have a brilliant attitude. He can be a bit spiky so interested to see how he gets on with the ref.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,481 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    That's a really exciting A team.

    Not sure how I fell about these games though, I've often thought in the past that one off A games can do more damage to players than good though. Play well and it's only an A game, play badly in a team that has just come together and you get written off for life.

    That said this Irish management group is doing a lot to expand its playing options and is investing a lot of time in Irish teams below the senior side, so the players are getting good opportunities.

    Next question is how do I watch this in Northern Ireland? I assume the IRFU haven't signed a TV deal that has excluded fans in Northern Ireland as that would be beyond outrageous if they have. But as I say I doubt they would ever consider doing that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,378 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    TJ Perenara and Damian McKenzie at 9&10 for New Zealand A.

    Also, that's just a very strong 23. Will be a tough ask for Ireland to win.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,769 ✭✭✭ersatz


    On the Ireland A as a positive or negative...taken alongside the EI tour I think it's a very positive departure. Ireland's squad depth has been our Achilles heel more often than not. 2 or 3 injuries and we get into trouble at the best of times, and more than that we just can't stay at our level. So developing opportunities for peripheral and younger players to get exposure to training camps and competitive international matches can help expand the pool of viable players.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    The same can be said for players coming into games against Italy and Argentina, for the senior setup. These games are creating more opportunities for the players to show what they can do within the systems. It’s clear that the IRFU want the senior team to win as many games as possible and play full strength sides doing so. So having A games could be the best chance for players in the wider squads to impress.



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