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Russian warship, go f**k yourself!

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Comments

  • Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,312 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    He is busy invading a European country. Himself and his deputies and Russian state TV have repeatedly mentioned nuking and invading other European countries. As US president, how would you settle this?

    Carve up Ukraine and "give" portions to Putin?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,039 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    The newly mobilized are called "Mobiks". Seemingly they have little or no training and were sent out front for an offensive and were easily defeated by the hardened soldiers.

    Very difficult to get a true figure in war though. Ukrainians claim 1,500 russians were killed Saturday and Sunday. Staying in large groups and inexperience in fighting is being claimed as a factor by partisans.



  • Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Id open talks anyway. Russia are losing this war and have resorted to taking out Ukrainian infrastructure.

    Talks should have brought this war to a close before the summer. I don’t see why Ukraine should give over territory.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,312 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Right. So as US president, you signal you are "open to talks" to your Russian counterpart, they ask what you are offering..

    What are you offering? Full lifting of sanctions and parts of Ukraine to a nuclear armed dictator? Because that is the very least the Russians would consider at this point, much less likely during the summer.

    Even if in some insane situation you agreed to such an absurd off, then Ukraine would likely say no. You have no right to give parts of their country away, they are the ones dying. They are the ones who have all the say in any talks about their own country.



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  • Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The first step is talks. I can’t see how Russia can secure territory when they are already on the back foot.

    The US is already in this war. They are providing most of the weapons and intelligence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,621 ✭✭✭✭893bet


    it might appear that Ukraine have all the “say” in talks about their country but the reality is he who pays the piper calls the tune. If military and economic support is withdrawn Ukraine will crumble.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,039 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    True but we have here a Russian administration that preaches of genocide against Ukraine and obliterating "the West" on national television with nuclear weapons. The support won't stop till Putin is in a box and Russia leaves Ukraine. The sooner the Russian population understands this and not being drawn along by our propaganda is working in the US and it'll change with the next US elections, that their TV channels are currently telling them.

    Every day more Russians are being killed for nothing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,039 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    It's not the last time but it was there in the past. When Roman Abramovich was in talks with a Ukrainian delegation, the entire group were poisoned by some substance. Didn't die but the warning was there. There's been talks since.

    And you can be sure diplomatic channels are still being kept open.

    But we are where we are.

    It's **** all we have to deal with in this country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,312 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The first step is talks

    A Russian delegation and Ukrainian delegation held talks when the war broke out but it was just the usual pantomime by the Russians while they continued to slaughter Ukrainians. Putin is not in Ukraine to "talk", he's there to invade, reabsorb the nation back into Russia by force.

    Not sure why you keep singling out the US. Many countries are supporting Ukraine, e.g. Sweden, Japan, Demark, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, etc, and they are all giving relatively significant amounts of aid, arms, intelligence. Putin is the sole decision-maker in Russia, this is 100% a war of choice, on a country that is no threat to Russia, at any time he can end all this. He's also chosen to be at proxy war with Europe and "the West", he is banking on being able to outlast Europe in all this.

    The only way he will stop is if his forces and means are depleted to an extent that he is forced into making decisions he doesn't want to. Or the domestic Russian situation deteriorates against him. And even then the Ukrainians may not accept any of his weaker offers and may want to drive every last Russian out of Ukrainian territory, which is absolutely their right.



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  • Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Americans provided the intelligence and himars etc that turned the tide.

    Its going to end up in talks anyway.



  • Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The whole thing is totally unsustainable.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Putin had a convenient accident over the winter and a new leader popped up.

    Sure Yeltsin checked in with Clinton before okaying Putin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭carrollsno1


    Weve been listening to the whole internal assasination, uprising, coup, accident theory with a few months now not to mention how Putin was on deaths door back in January.

    Sounds just like "two more weeks to flatten the curve" longest two weeks i ever put in.

    Better living everyone



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭divillybit


    This may be a dumb question but I'll ask it anyway... Given that Russia are targeting Ukrainian infrastructure but with limited success given that 90% of the Russian missiles were intercepted (as reported in the Russia thread)... are the Ukrainians responding in kind and targeting infrastructure in Russia?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,039 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    70,000 dead Russians is new though.


    Don't forget the non white migrants in Moscow being press ganged into Putin's war just may not be too happy about it. There's simmering tensions about the high % of non white Russians being drafted in.

    And on the Russian flip side of the " two more weeks". It's the west will freeze and the next US administration will loose interest. So.. keep sending those Mobiks.

    But it will eventually reach a crescendo. 15,000 dead Russians in the afghan war brought about a change in the Kremlin.

    All they can do is keep killing Russians in Ukraine till some one gets the message in Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,871 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    All they can do is keep killing Russians in Ukraine

    Nearly all online virtue signallers are saying this, all the while also saying the war is terrible etc

    I don't think they see the irony



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    A contracted or any Russian soldier is in Ukraine to kill as many Ukraine soldiers as he can and will kill any civilian in the wrong place at the wrong time to save himself or at times just for fun.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,307 ✭✭✭Good loser


    You've got that well wrong. Clinton did meet Putin AFTER he had become president. Clinton spoke to Putin and sussed him out. He told Yeltsin he had picked a dud; Yeltsin agreed but it was too late|!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    The question is what is the real number?

    None of us knows and nothing is going to change most likely because of the numbers killed.

    The only time Ukraine regains any significant area is when Russia has made the decision to pull back already.

    There's no reason to think Russia can't keep this going for another few years.

    We can't and Ukraine can't.

    Ukraine will never recover in anyone's lifetime to where it was pre war, which was a very poor and corrupt country. No matter what happens, they have lost.

    Europe's economy is slowly collapsing and really needs to repair relations with Russia unless we want to collapse everything. If euro loses it's credibility and no-one wants to hold it, then we will be set back 50 years or more.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,039 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    It's usually I want peace and I can't understand why the Ukrainians are fighting the Russians. Ala Wallace and Daly.

    Surprised the Russian embassy haven't the peace flag flying while the genocide continues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    I don't understand why you keep advocating for Europe to repair relations with Russia. That just emboldens them, with our money to come back and go for more in future. Russia made their bed, now we all lie in it. So be it. Things a bit more expensive isn't going to kill us. God forbid we have to forgo the shiniest phone, or buy new clothes every week, or turn down the temperature a it, or drive a bit slower or whatever. People got used to the cosy handy life built on cheap energy. That's gone now, and we must adjust



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,039 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Keep sending those Mobiks to die.

    Of course it'll have an effect. Anything else is what they tell themselves to win the war. Which is not happening atm.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 976 ✭✭✭gk5000


    Hope none of your neighbours decide to graze your fields or "borrow" your tractors and maybe a few round bales, or all your round bales.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    It goes much deeper. Imagine you or a family member was sick, would you rather go through the public hospital system in somewhere like Brazil or in Ireland.

    If we don't have a strong economy and the ability to export euros, we get hit with either massive amounts of austerity to balance the books or else go through large amounts of sustained inflation like Argentina. Everything unwinds as our economy would need such a massive restructuring to cope.

    We will go back to rearing people for export.

    All the prosperity we have come to know will be gone.

    Except we also have to go through massive pain, job losses, bankruptcies etc before we will be adjusted to the new reality.

    That's all a very big cost to stick it to Putin, is Ukraine worth it? Not a hope



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,015 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    What make you think that Europe, the US and Ukraine cannot keep this up for a decade and Russia could.

    Russia is bleeding soldiers and materials. The present draft will probably keep the war going until next spring ( although I think the Russian army will suffer horrific losses over the winter) and he has to draft again.

    If figures are true and Russia has lost 50k+ troops killed it must have as many seriously wounded as well. The next six months could be worse for them.

    The Ukrainian army's resolve seems good. More and more western trained Ukrainian troops are entering the arena. Better trained, better equipped than even the contracted and elite Russian units which are decimated at this stage.

    At some stage the oligarchy or the upper echelon of the Russian elite will realise this is not winnable. That is only 6-12 months away.

    How is the west suffering, more expensive energy, a bit of inflation, it not going to cause a revolution in the west. How long before the que's of crippled soldiers and the realisation that there is ten of thousands more not returning home cause a rethink in Russian society.

    If this war goes on another year there will be up on 200k dead Russian soldiers. Russia will be unable to sustain that. Its an awful senario to contemplate. I feel very sorry for many of those Russian young and not so young men. But I would not sentence the population of eastern Ukraine to have to live under that yoke because of it

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,842 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Russia won't be able to keep this going for years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    We know it goes much deeper. And everyones economy is important. We're in Ireland. We've one of the highest spends on health per capita in the world, yet have 100s on trollies, vacancies to be filled, massive amounts on waiting lists, unreal waiting list times, trouble getting supports for people, etc, etc. Cheap gas from Russia isn't going to solve that.

    Our economy depends on <10 massive companies to keep the show on the road. I'd be more fearful of a SF government and looney policies to placate the useless of society ruining things than Ukraine.

    The options are stick it to Putin, or don't. You don't want to for spurios reasons in my opinion. I totally disagree and want him and Russia firmly put back into their own territory and their ability to invade again easily to be stripped from them. Otherwise, as I see it, they'll be back for more. Then more. Then more. And what we're experiencing now in our small island in our lives will just go on and on and on. Bending over and agreeing to allow Russia annex part of a country just so we can have cheap fuel is not worth it. Ever.



  • Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I was with ya until sorrow for the russians. If you seek out enough interviews you'll find they complain about their conditions and equipment, not the war or putrid. Many of them have an expansionist imperialist mindset. Apart from a brain drain at the start of the war, they weren't leaving russia until mobilisation. The lack of anti war protests abroad by russians should speak volumes to inform your thinking. Europe has been foolish to accept so many russians.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,015 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Most of the recruits are from the Asian part of Russia, most are conscripted. Most are improvised and have very little understanding of the reality

    Ya the views from the European part of Russia, mostly Moscow and St Petersburg are all pro Russian expansion. Be ase there was a large cohort conscripted from these areas hopefully it will bring the reality of the situation home to them.

    I agree with most of what you stated. However I think it was Putin who ordered the the blowing of the Nordstream pipelines. This give no reason for the oligarchs to rise against him. They cannot start gas flowing again to finance any restructuring of the country.

    Slava Ukrainii



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