BoJo banished - Liz Truss down. Is Rishi next for the toaster? threadbans in OP

Bass Reeves · 25-10-2022 10:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790349#Comment_119790349

You do not get to the top of the ladder without having a hard edge. He must be extremely bright. Was put in as under secretary to the Exchequer to watch Javid. However he has go e from new MP to PM in six years. He came from nowhere politically to get elected as MP a few years before that.

He must be fairly capable and sharp to get where he in in that time. He has the time and space to ignore the ERG, there policy has failed. The upper echelon who supported them have swung behind him or have backed the wrong horse.

Hague and Duncan Smith were neutered by them as well as May, Johnson and Truss. You take them head on and give them no quarter. The more you bow to them the more they p!SS on you

UsBus · 25-10-2022 11:07AM

Rishi has hardly even signed his contract yet and the memes comparing him to Will from Inbetweeners are flying. The Brits love nothing more than taking someone in the public eye down.

The voiceover clip of Will's speech at the club where he took drugs and "Time is moving really slowly" to Rishi's first speech is worth listening to..!!

Quin_Dub · 25-10-2022 11:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790449#Comment_119790449

I don't doubt that for a second that he's intelligent etc. - That is a given and clearly he has political nous , as you say he wouldn't be where he is without it.

Previously though he's had a "big dog" like Johnson providing the heft as it were. Who is Sunaks "enforcer" to keep the nutters in line?

Peregrinus · 25-10-2022 11:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790444#Comment_119790444

The problem for the ERG is that, at the moment, the only weapon they have in their locker is the threat to vote against the government, thereby precipitating a general election. But that's hardly a credible threat. Why?

For the next two years there is no possiblity, zero, of the Tories defenestrating a third leader and installing a fourth; if Sunak falls, a general election follows. And that would be ruinous for the ERG; some of them would lose their seats, and after the inevitable GE loss, when the Tories are taking a long hard look at themselves and trying to turn themselves into a credible force once again, there will be a strong feeling that the influence of the ERG has not been good for the party. They are at risk of being marginalised, if not even purged.

So I think there's the makings of a stable position in which Sunak pretends to take the ERG seriously, and the ERG pretend not to notice that he doesn't take them seriously. Sunak won't provoke a trade war with the EU, but equally won't announce that he is rejecting ERG demands in order not to provide a trade war with the EU. The NIP Bill will not be abandoned, but it will languish. The UK will become less confrontational, and more low-key, in its engagement with the EU, and will take a bit more seriously pursuing attainable goals without overtly abandoning the unattainable ones. They'll try to reestablish the UK as a credible negotiating counterparty for the EU, and part of the tacit deal with the ERG is that the ERG won't sabotage that.

25-10-2022 11:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790051#Comment_119790051

To the contrary, we don't think anything of his heritage except to celebrate it.

The problem is very much on the other foot; parts of the left losing the plot because the Conservatives appointed a man of his heritage. The same parts of the left that have a problem with anti-Semitism, ironically. What was it that the Labour MP recently said about the former chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng, that he was "only superficially black"? The same statement that was defended on here by you and others. Don't start throwing around the racist card, please.

Apart from the politics of envy rearing its head again, as well as bizarre and baseless conspiracy theories about him entering the role specifically to enrich his "the Elite / 1%" friends, I think we can dismiss the rest as resentment toward an otherwise affable and successful individual.

ancapailldorcha · 25-10-2022 11:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790599#Comment_119790599

I think the slight problem with your analysis is that you've been quite generous with the amount of rationality you've attributed to the ERG. True, some of them certainly aren't stupid. Mogg himself is no fool, just someone who believes in accruing as much material wealth as possible while trying his best not to render too much unto Caesar in the process. Francois? Let's call that a different story.

We both know that a GE now would ruin the ERG. However, an election a year from now might well see many of them defenestrated. All wailing about the protocol has achieved is to destroy the UK's reputation abroad. Many of them will be just fine if they can't continue to be MPs. Long term thinking has never been something they prioritised. If they did, they wouldn't be the ERG.

All that said, Sunak has consistently demonstrated a degree of intelligence, nous and general cop on. He knows there's no gain in openly picking a fight with them or in reopening old wounds WRT the NI protocol as you've said. I think winter is going to be the next step. I think the Tories can easily survive another leadership change. They clearly don't care about either democracy or legitimacy at this point. They're on their third leader since the last election and refuse to call a GE despite clamouring for Brown to do so in 2008.

Leroy42 · 25-10-2022 11:55AM

Successful at what? He has done nothing of note. The furlough scheme is the main thing touted, that was pretty much what every country did. He wasn't some out-of-the-box thinker. And what other option did he really have? No furlough?

He has been successful at getting places, but then so were Johnson and Truss, so not sure that getting places in this Tory party is that much of an achievement.

He has backed Brexit, clearly an economic disaster for the UK. He led the 'Get out to eat out' campaign. Seen by most as a serious error in terms of containing the spread.

He lost to Liz Truss. That on its own should be enough to disqualify anyone from a senior position. He couldn't even out-debate Truss? What does that say about his ability to get his ideas across?

Its nothing to do with envy, it has to do with a person being installed in the highest political position in the UK without much scrutiny or achievements. Nothing more that a promise that he must be good, cause he is rich and sure he made it this far.

He was the CX that raised taxes to their highest level in 70 years. Much to the annoyance of Tory members and MP's. You, yourself, welcomed Truss's mini-budget for finally getting back to a real Troy budget.

Remember, he only got the CX job because he was wiling to be subservient to No 10, a position that Javid refused to accept. And this is the man people think will lead the country? A man that willing accepted to be no more than a yes man to Johnson?

ancapailldorcha · 25-10-2022 11:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790654#Comment_119790654

It's the new panegyric that's emerged with little to no basis on fact. Funny how nobody's mentioning that the membership had to be bypassed to secure Sunak's leadership of the party. Wonder why.

Sunak is someone who, let's be honest, is there because his background and the fact that he backed Brexit. Guff like "Politics of envy" is what the neoliberals who worship wealth used to trot out to shut down criticism. Same people see refugees as subhuman so the faux enthusiasm for the new PM being of Indian heritage is pathetically transparent.

Furze99 · 25-10-2022 12:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790654#Comment_119790654

One of Richy's main issues is that he's.... well... rich.

Nothing hugely strange about that in the Tory ranks. But Richy is obviously & ostentatiously rich, everything about him looks like wealth.

So how this going to go down with the great unwashed British public? Expect also he'll be constantly reminded of this by opposition parties, if as almost certain that belts have to be tightened.

One of Truss's weaknesses was that she was rather too common, Richy is the other extreme.

Padre_Pio · 25-10-2022 12:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790742#Comment_119790742

I don't think Truss being "common" was an issue.

Truss being gullible, weak, unoriginal, easily led, and not smart enough was her issue.

25-10-2022 12:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790742#Comment_119790742

Keir Starmer has an estimated wealth of 15 million pounds.

Rich MPs exist everywhere.

Rishi should be judged by his performance as Prime Minister and not by what number occupies his bank balance.

Furze99 · 25-10-2022 12:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790804#Comment_119790804

Maybe, but his wealth will be his Achilles Heel.

ancapailldorcha · 25-10-2022 12:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790779#Comment_119790779

Truss was a venal imbecile. Sunak is no fool but he's not much of an improvement on her either.

Panthro · 25-10-2022 12:50PM

JRM resigns.

Good. Don't give that fool another job.

ArmaniJeanss · 25-10-2022 12:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790804#Comment_119790804

Could you link to a breakdown of how that £15M estimate was arrived at (and not just a newspaper site where it was reported as being a fact).

It seems absolutely way off to me based on employment history so far which has involved roles (lawyer, DPP, politician) that tend to come in at about £100K a year (current £144K as LOTO). The only way that £15M could be arrived at is if it includes future earnings, inc another 15 years politician salary, pensions, possibly the post PM speaking circuit etc

To me that's a false way of calculating net worth - his actual net worth, if for whatever reason he had to stop working tomorrow, would surely just be a fraction of that alleged £15M.

VinLieger · 25-10-2022 01:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790804#Comment_119790804

LOL no he doesnt you simply read the google result snippet of the express article about his, Johnsons and Rishis net worth, if you actually read the article you could see Keir only has 7.7 million, the line about 15 million is actually referencing Rishis and his wifes properties

ancapailldorcha · 25-10-2022 01:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790914#Comment_119790914

So another lie then.

Sunak's record as chancellor is calamitous. There's no reason to suspect that he'll make a better PM.

breezy1985 · 25-10-2022 01:07PM

Rishi's first speech as PM

https://youtu.be/GoXYTHlWXvQ

L1011 · 25-10-2022 01:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790444#Comment_119790444

Rees-Mogg has now said he doesn't think he's a socialist anymore. But resigned anyway.

Lots of inexplicable decisions being made, if you believe the claimed basis for them.

Donald Trump · 25-10-2022 01:12PM

Moggy gone now

Quin_Dub · 25-10-2022 01:16PM

Brandon Lewis gone as well.

He tweeted his resignation letter to the new prime minister and said it had been an "honour to have been one of the longest serving Cabinet ministers - having done eight ministerial roles, in five departments, under four Prime Ministers"

In an ordinary world that comment would be a reflection on a career of many decades , with the current Tory party that covers about 4 years at best.

HalloweenJack · 25-10-2022 01:20PM

I have a theory about the 'celebration of diversity' argument which some Tory fans have embraced.

It is being trotted out as they think its a case of 'beating them (their opponents) at their own game'.

I've seen plenty of comments over the years decrying affirmative action/appointments of minorities in numerous areas. The complaint is the belief that these are only being made because of the appointees' minority status as opposed to any merit.

So now the Tories are appointing minorities, as they believe this is their opponents' strategy, but in a more cynical approach. Because they believe its all about appearances and nothing to do with merit, they think these people can do a **** job and be free of criticism. As we've seen with Kwarteng, Truss and Braverman, criticism is ignored and met with faux-outrage about attacks on diversity. I don't know to what extent these politicians are in on it but I have the suspicion they are willing puppets/useful idiots for the backers of the Tory party.

As an aside, I don't think all 'minority' Tories are useful idiots. Patel and Sunak seem to have been long term Tories while Badenoch is still an unknown. It just seems convenient that three recent appointments which were clearly beyond their capabilities were 'diversity' candidates and pursued policies that played to the membership base.

Regardless of the substance of the criticism these members may receive, criticising women is sexist, criticising BAME members is racist, criticising LGBT+ members is homophobic, etc. The criticism is ignored and the response is all about defending the minority status of the recipient.

Its just like the 'criticisng the Israeli government makes you an anti-Semite' trope. It is intentionally used to shutdown criticism or debate as they have convinced themselves this is the approach used by their opponents.

This has led to some bizarre comments in recent weeks. One poster was insisting that they don't see race yet was constantly parroting the 'diversity' line while the other day we had the 'Asian Tony Blair' line. They insist that race isn't an issue for the Tories yet they love to bring it up at every opportunity. They then also dismiss the importance of the membership numbers of the Tories being overwhelmingly rich, white males and go back to championing the diversity of their cabinet and their MPs.

It's all just 'I'm not racist; my best friend is black' on a massive scale.

25-10-2022 01:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790939#Comment_119790939

The numbers seem so insignificant by todays standards

Loafing Oaf · 25-10-2022 01:53PM

I don't understand ministers 'resigning' when a new PM takes over. Surely the reality is everyone is waiting to see if they are picked for the new team. I suppose it sounds more polite than saying "I won't work for the new guy even if he asks me." Plus if you're pretty sure you won't be offered a job it seems (superficially) more dignified to 'resign' ahead of that...

25-10-2022 01:58PM

Often a case of resign before being fired.

Tony EH · 25-10-2022 02:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791134#Comment_119791134

Well, it makes them look like they're the ones in control. Whereas if they're horsed out by the new PM they lose that particular agency. Childish of course, but there it is.

25-10-2022 02:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790914#Comment_119790914

"Only has 7.7 million". Ha!

Quin_Dub · 25-10-2022 02:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791255#Comment_119791255

He's not poor by any means - but then the vast majority of them aren't by any standard measure of wealth or financial comfort level.

However the correct figure makes Sunak 100 times richer than him rather than only 50 times richer based on the incorrect figure you provided.

25-10-2022 02:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790999#Comment_119790999

That theory is nonsense.

I don't recognize your characterization at all.

Candidates are selected not for the colour of their skin but by their perceived competence for the role.

The reason it's brought up is because too many times the CP is smeared as a racist party yet this doesn't align with reality when you see who gets many of the top jobs.

It's a totally empty smear.

Sunak making it to the top is a testament to that and that the CP doesn't need to resort to regressive quotas and nonsense like that to ensure that anyone can rise irrespective of their background.

Furze99 · 25-10-2022 02:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791304#Comment_119791304

Selected surely in this case, as the least worse current option?

BoJo banished - Liz Truss down. Is Rishi next for the toaster? **threadbans in OP**

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BoJo banished - Liz Truss down. Is Rishi next for the toaster? threadbans in OP