M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

what_traffic · 20-10-2022 9:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769241#Comment_119769241

Ya people on this thread are struggling with this one. Restricting through traffic is what its about not cars.

One will still be able to drive into the City Centre and park up within 100m of Shop Street. It will be more expensive that parking at the P&R but that's the model that is followed all over Europe. Its not re-inventing the wheel.

Look what Ghent did (https://www.eltis.org/discover/case-studies/gents-traffic-circulation-plan-belgium)

waiting for the - but Ghent has x,y,z...... one apply's the principles, one is NOT going to get an exact copy and paste geographical map of a City and population distribution

markpb · 20-10-2022 9:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769128#Comment_119769128

The fact that you compare the DC in Mayo with a ring-road around Galway shows that you don't understand peoples objections to this road at all.

Mrs OBumble · 20-10-2022 10:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769340#Comment_119769340

If you're an elderly person living in the Claddagh, and your grandchild wants to take you to the hairdresser in Middle Street - then sure, they can do it, but they will have to go a huge distance out of their way.

That's just crapping on residents for ideological reasons, with measures that will do NOTHING to address the actual traffic issues, which are all around the edges, not in the city centre.

rustyfrog · 20-10-2022 10:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769520#Comment_119769520

What is your suggestion?

1. Leave everything as it is.

2. Reprioritize road allocation within the city (doesn't sound like it)

3. Build the ring road then reprioritize road allocation within the city (doesn't sound like it)

4. Build the ring road and do no changes to the city road allocation

Which are you suggesting? 1, 4 or something different?

CruelSummer · 20-10-2022 10:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769332#Comment_119769332

Who decides what a ‘necessary car journey’ is? Who gets to make the decision as to why and for what people should be allowed to cross the city for in a car? And who gets to decide to ban cars from the city centre when there’s no alternative routes for them to take to the west side? It was the emergency services that ultimately put a stop to the Salthill cycleway as the road infrastructure isn’t there should they take space off that area - an inconvenient truth some.

CruelSummer · 20-10-2022 10:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769408#Comment_119769408

Castlebar will now be bypassed with a good dual carriageway running east to west to Westport. Claremorris will now have an overpass to allow safer traffic flows on and off the n17.

20-10-2022 10:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769618#Comment_119769618

You are the only one talking about a ban it seems, no idea why

what_traffic · 20-10-2022 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769520#Comment_119769520

This is not true - there are plenty of car traffic issues in the City Centre as there are in many other parts of the City.

We need to prioritize the most efficient modes of moving people all over the City.

CruelSummer · 20-10-2022 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769649#Comment_119769649

Am I right in saying you’re not based in Galway? And am I right in saying you’re against any further roads being developed in the city?

20-10-2022 11:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769732#Comment_119769732

Your first question and any answer to it has no bearing on the topic imo. You may disagree but that's an issue for you, not me.

Did I say that I'm against any further roads being developed? I don't believe so.

For example, I fully support the CCL and Dublin rd works to add infrastructure for more sustainable modes. Those plans are not perfect, by any stretch, but they are a good start.

I also think the WDR should be done in a similar manner asap.

Do I support over a billion being spent on a ring road that will, according to the planning application documents, not only not improve things, but will actually make the overall situation worse? No, I don't support that development but then that's obvious to all concerned

Seth Brundle · 20-10-2022 11:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769618#Comment_119769618

You really seem to want to deliberately misunderstand the point.

Someone who has the choice to drive, walk, cycle, bus, go on horseback or travel into the city whilst doing handstands will make the decision if their journey is essential by car. This has always been the way. However, our road planners have always made the choice to travel by car easier and made little or no attempt to facilitate those who wish to travel by other means. This is why now bus journeys in galway aren't a realistic option for example.

As for your question regarding no alternative routes to head west - why would there be no alternative routes?

My own view is that the council need to get the finger out and provide safe means for people to travel in and out of the city (to the suburbs) by bus and by bike. Bus lanes will require closing some roads but this is for the greater good, as they say - there are still enough alternatives. It is widely accepted globally that if you build safe cycling infrastructure, people will use it (if it is **** (as is traditionally the case in Ireland), it won't be used by many). Once people know that they can commute by alternative means, they will look to save both time & money by not taking the car. Thousands of commiting cars would be removed automatically making it easier for those who need to drive to do so.

People have not argued to ban cars from the city. Cars won't be banned from the city. What is proposed by some is to re-prioritise the road space so not all roads will favour cars. Why should a few single occupancy cars be allowed to block a road carrying a bus full of passengers?

As for the emergency services - there was nothing inconvenient about the truth here - the point made by the ES was based on incorrect information (as they could have travelled down the cycle path as is the case with the one in Blackrock (Dublin) and along ones across the world. The bigger issue with Salthill was that the council really don't want to be arsed with it and the gardai don't want to be arsed carrying out their enforcement role. Maybe have a read of the following before replying...

https://irishcycle.com/2022/01/28/gardai-refuse-to-comment-on-reported-objection-to-galway-cycle-path-senator-calls-claims-emergency-services-delay-spurious/

20-10-2022 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769637#Comment_119769637

Wasn't Humbert Way originally built as a bypass too?

CatInABox · 20-10-2022 12:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769618#Comment_119769618

As Seth Brundle says above, the person making the journey is the one who decides if it's necessary to do it by car or not. Right now, most people are making the choice that public and active transport are not really all that worthwhile. In my opinion, they're making the right choice, PT and AT are terrible in almost all parts of Galway.

So that then leaves the question as to which route to go to solve this. Do we build more roads, or do we prioritise making PT and AT more viable options for people.

You never answered the agenda question either, do you believe that people wanting the road built are also forcing their agenda down peoples neck? In your answer, I think you should consider the number of people in this country that can't drive, either by being too young, too old, too sick, too poor, and also consider those that choose not to drive, based upon the harm done to the environment.

CruelSummer · 20-10-2022 12:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769796#Comment_119769796

So you’re not based in Galway but opposed to the road for ideological reasons? Is it fair to say you’re not affected by the current set up in Galway at the moment, day in day out but continuously post about it on this thread to oppose the road getting built which is your right.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769816#Comment_119769816

You didn’t answer the question - you’re diverting your points into closing roads and getting people to cycle, walk or take a bus into the city which is all fine if the infrastructure exists around it. In Galway’s case, it’s already 20 years too late. I find it somewhat arrogant that you’re claiming the emergency services are ‘wrong’ re Salthill cycleway concerns. That is a life or death situation for many. Talk of them being able to charge down cycle lanes quickly and urgently with the plans I saw for Salthill doesn’t match reality. I support all the public transport and cycleway options if they’re based in reality - infrastructure. I’ve a different view to the lobby on here so I’ll go. But you’re in the minority of the views of people in Galway city and county I talk to on a daily basis. The anger is palpable at the latest decision. People have lost patience for this circus. The only people supporting no road are those who don’t want their mansions knocked down or those who want to restrict access to their locality such as certain areas to the west of Galway city close to the sea and surrounds.

Juran · 20-10-2022 12:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769637#Comment_119769637

And don't forget Castlebar had a south-north bypass build over 30 years ago.

Look at any city comparable to Galway on the Brittany coastal area, both rural and protected. Brest, Quimper, Lorient ... all have bypasses, you don't need to drive through or near those cities unless you need to.

Ask Galway recruiters, how many potential applicants refused to apply for a job once they found out the company was in Spiddal, Inverin, etc as they don't want to cross the city.

cezanne · 20-10-2022 12:35pm

Galway is a very badly planned town that is called a city and the traffic chaos is just bad beyond belief. You cannot get anywhere its like a blocked sewerage system. there need to be some inner city demolition before any more roads are planned.

CruelSummer · 20-10-2022 12:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769887#Comment_119769887

Ring road with roundabouts according to Google?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770068#Comment_119770068

I don’t believe the ring road is forcing an agenda, roads are necessary for transport of goods, services, people. They’re a much better investment than an expensive Gluas that only services the areas it runs through with high maintenance costs. I’ve noticed the local school buses lately are so full, they’ve invested in huge two story options - this is a great way to transport many people around at once on roads. Buses should do similar. Again you’re missing the point - you cannot take more road space from Galway city for public transport and cycling as there’s not enough road space or bridges crossing the city to begin with.

Thelonious Monk · 20-10-2022 12:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119765070#Comment_119765070

My partner is an anesthetist and doesn't own a car, she cycles to work! if she ever bought a range rover that'd be the end of the relationship for me 😐️

20-10-2022 12:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770104#Comment_119770104

As I said, my situation has no bearing on the topic. Why you are aiming to make this about me is, well, just plain weird.

Seth Brundle · 20-10-2022 12:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770104#Comment_119770104

You didn’t answer the question

I answered your questions. It is not my fault if you cannot comprehend the reply.

you’re diverting your points into closing roads and getting people to cycle, walk or take a bus into the city which is all fine if the infrastructure exists around it.

erm, I'm saying that the infrastructure needs to be put in place. There is no point spending a massive amount of taxpayers money on a road that their own data says will make things worse for the city.

Also, I did not say about "getting" people to cycle, walk or take a bus. That implies force. I said that the council need to provide options to the people who will make the choice on what means of travel to take. Up till now, that choice has been massively skewed towards private car travel.

In Galway’s case, it’s already 20 years too late.

So you're saying not to bother because the car is the dominant form now and there's no going back? If so, let me show you a photo of Amsterdam in the 1970s...

If you think transport patterns cannot change then you're wrong. History has shown us that they've already changed in Galway and all around the world!

I find it somewhat arrogant that you’re claiming the emergency services are ‘wrong’ re Salthill cycleway concerns.

How you find something is for you to deal with but whilst you may find my response arrogant, it is not wrong!

That is a life or death situation for many. Talk of them being able to charge down cycle lanes quickly and urgently with the plans I saw for Salthill doesn’t match reality.

So the emergency services across the world can manage to use cycle lanes to get to an emergency and in some cases it has allowed them to bypass traffic congestion but in Galway it wouldn't have worked? How so?

I support all the public transport and cycleway options if they’re based in reality - infrastructure.

Evidently!

But you’re in the minority of the views of people in Galway city and county I talk to on a daily basis.

Is it a popularity contest to see which transport solution for Galway should be built? Will they be taking Facebook likes into account also?

The anger is palpable at the latest decision. People have lost patience for this circus.

I'm angry at the constant desire to piss away money without even trying to do the basics first which would cost a tiny fraction of what the road would cost. However, my anger is directed towards the councils and TII who are hell bent on trying to bulldoze a feckin stupid plan through whilst admitting that it will make trasport in and around Galway worse whilst at the same time making air qualtiy worse and doing nothing to make it easier to make an alternative choice on how to travel.

Then you get the muppets (obviously not you!) who believe that the road should go ahead regardless of all else and ignore all of the evidence provided. Sure they've spoken to their angry neighbours who also think the road should be built despite all of the evidence which says that it would be a bad investment of taxpayers money.

The only people supporting no road are those who don’t want their mansions knocked down or those who want to restrict access to their locality such as certain areas to the west of Galway city close to the sea and surrounds.

Ah would you grow up!

xckjoo · 20-10-2022 1:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770112#Comment_119770112

We are bypassed. M17+M18. This is a ring road proposal. There's no major settlements further West of Galway so no need for a East-West bypass

brianc89 · 20-10-2022 1:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769340#Comment_119769340

Fantastic comparison. Not open to x, y or z, not even for a second.

Ghent:

Screenshot_2022-10-20-14-04-15-67_3d9111e2d3171bf4882369f490c087b4.jpg

Galway:

Screenshot_2022-10-20-14-05-12-04_3d9111e2d3171bf4882369f490c087b4.jpg

brianc89 · 20-10-2022 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770236#Comment_119770236

Population of Galway city: 83,456

Population of Galway county: 276,451

Population excl. city: 192,996

But yeah no one lives in East or West Galway. Maybe that 192k live underground with the mole people and move around using an advanced system of tunnels.

xckjoo · 20-10-2022 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770368#Comment_119770368

Never said that nobody lives outside the city. I said there's no major population centre to the west of the city so a bypass serves no purpose. There isn't a bypass being proposed and never has been. Someone will come along in a minute to remind us of the percentage of trips that start and end outside the city that would necessitate a bypass.

Based on how badly you interpreted my post I'm not convinced you're posting in good faith so will leave it there.

brianc89 · 20-10-2022 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770650#Comment_119770650

Okay but this goes to the very heart of the broader argument. Galway is a sprawling county - it's the WORST example in Ireland.

No big towns, mostly one off housing, and people absolutely dependent on cars. PT solutions within Galway City don't help these people with day to day living.

WAY MORE people should be commuting sustainably, no question. But if we continue to ignore the sprawled nature of county and compare to Ghent, then we're just going to keep arguing and go nowhere.

xckjoo · 20-10-2022 2:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770716#Comment_119770716

That's one of the main problems with the proposed ring road; it'll encourage more sprawl and one-off housing. Build transport hubs and the housing will naturally gravitate towards it.

20-10-2022 3:09pm

Seems like due to the recent quashing of the planning permission for the ring road, the Galway Advertiser has decided to run a number of transport related articles in this weeks edition

First up, Cllr Ollie Crowe almost getting it, but still maintaining the "let us build this then everything else will be fixed" without anything to back it up

"Those who oppose the ring road on ideological grounds fail to recognise that the ring road will enable much of what they wish to advance, by taking cars out of the city, there will be far more scope to promote bus lanes and cycle lanes."

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/132207/a-bus-stuck-in-a-traffic-is-no-better-than-a-car-says-ollie-crowe-after-ring-road-setback

Then we have IBEC, repeating the same mantra, yet everything they are referring to from the GTS is due for implementation ahead of the GCRR anyway so the GCRR has no bearing.

“The ring road will support improved mobility in the city. It will tackle the city’s congestion challenges by reducing the number of cars in the city, creating a city centre more conducive to walking and cycling, and more efficient for cross-city public transport journeys."

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/132206/decision-on-gcrr-a-major-setback-ibec

Next up we have the well known Ind TD (well known for his racist rants) Noel "I'm not a racist" Grealish who doesn't seem to understand the purpose of the ring road as it will not do anything of the sort that he is claiming. Well, to be fair, it might for like 15-20 months and thats about it

“Galway is suffering extreme congestion in the city centre and increased journey times, as I have experienced myself. The ring road has the potential to reroute traffic from the city and alleviate capacity constraints.”

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/132186/grealish-tells-dil-that-never-ending-ring-road-saga-shows-need-for-planning-laws-change

The ever motoring Sean Kyne gets his tupence in with the same claim that the GCRR is needed to make the city a better place. The last 3 words of this quote pretty much kill his whole argument as there has always been too many on the council claiming AT/PT measures are not feasible.

"It will make the inner core of our city more liveable and more able to accommodate the public transport measures in the strategy and future plans. The GCRR provides the space in the existing road network for more bus lanes, cycling and pedestrian projects and light rail, if deemed feasible."

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/132173/ring-road-an-integral-part-of-the-solution-to-get-galway-moving-again

On the other side of the coin we see Sen Pauline Reilly calling out populist politicians for their dishonesty

"I believe too many politicians have been using it for their own election platforms, instead of being honest with us all in Galway. The Ring Road was never going to solve the traffic problems. It was only ever going to lock us in to more car dependency."

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/132174/road-decision-ensures-better-future-for-our-children

Then you have an article about parents who have given up waiting and instead are having to create a protection detail, aka cycle bus, to allow their children to travel to school without fear of injury or death

Parents were concerned that the lack of segregated cycleways made it unsafe for children cycling to school. They decided that, until such infrastructure is in place, a cyclebus could provide protection for children and families who wish to cycle. The cyclebus operates like a moving cycle lane, with the children protected by a row of adults cycling on the outside.

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/132137/pedal-power-parents-form-school-cyclebus-for-salthill

Lastly, for the 2 time in as many months, we see another Doctor getting "doored". Again another lucky escape, but how long until we see someone killed. Its only a matter of time

Dr Vinny Griffith, was cycling back home from University College Hospital Galway (UCHG ) on the evening of Wednesday, September 28, when he was “doored” by a parked car.

This is the second time a healthcare worker has been “doored” on the streets of Galway while on their way home from work in the last few months. Dooring, a term which is used to describe the action of when a car door is opened into the path of an oncoming cyclist, and can cause extensive injuries to the cyclist.

In August, Dr Ciara Curran was cycling along The Prom in Salthill, when she was doored by a parked car. The “dooring” resulted in her handlebars being knocked which sent her flying off her bike and onto the next lane, where oncoming traffic was approaching, Dr Curran, a “seasoned cyclist” said on Galway Bay FM show, Galway Talks, that she was “lucky to be alive”.

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/132196/doored-doctor-calls-for-better-cycling-infrastructure

I'll let ye draw your own conclusions

Seth Brundle · 20-10-2022 3:42pm

Given @Dominik Flabby Pantry mentioned the profound wisdom of Cllr Ollie Crowe, architect Ciarán Ferrie disected his article's last paragraph (which Dominik Flabby Pantry has repeated above), this one tweet from Ferrie is a good representation of how Galway got to where it is now...

https://twitter.com/ccferrie/status/1583002885415395328?s=20&t=djG_Y4OUtkhwYGwFpWXYCg

I also saw this old skit in a response to his tweet - it seems quite apt...

https://twitter.com/LiorSteinberg/status/1536221889206669313

For those unfamiliar, I give you the death metal band Jevons paradox!

20-10-2022 4:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771229#Comment_119771229

That clip is from a much longer bit (5 mins). Its honestly quite funny regardless of your stance on the GCRR

https://youtu.be/pCzCJzwrB_c

brianc89 · 20-10-2022 5:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770823#Comment_119770823

You can't develop denser towns without a baseline road network to get materials, lorries, cranes, (wo)men in white vans in to actually build anything.

What's your suggestion?? Ban one off housing (fine, I agree), but then what??? Everyone needs to start praying that apartments grow out of the ground? It rains enough in Galway, maybe a fungus will evolve into high rise buildings which answers our prayers.

M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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