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BoJo banished - Liz Truss down. Is Rishi next for the toaster? **threadbans in OP**

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fantasy stuff.

    Brexit is irreversible; it's not on the political agenda anymore. Even the likes of Tony Blair admit that. I know that some Conservative anti-Brexit forces, like Heseltine and others, cannot get over it - but he'll just have to. It's done. Collecting together to mourn the loss of the EU is tantamount to a cult at this stage. Sure even Sir Keir Starmer's pledge is to "make Brexit work"!

    That highly selectively timed empty hall is nothing. It happens at various stages of all conference seasons. You get busy periods, and less busy periods. It's the nature of a conference, any conference really.

    And as for the conclusion drawn by the author of that tweet, namely, "that times are changing", exemplifies the degree of delusion that many have for this longing for a return to the EU. It ain't going to happen, certainly not anytime soon. As I said, this is the stuff of fantasy.

    Whilst Heseltine mourns, the rest of the party and Liz Truss can get on with what people actually care about re: cost of living, energy crisis etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,946 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Probably a lot of young tory members finally deciding they should actually learn about this EU thing theyve been railing against for the past 2 decades



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's worth mentioning that most of the Red Wall, prototypical Labour voters opted to Brexit.

    Brexit was therefore a question that crossed party lines, with divisions deep and throughout. So your narrative is false, totally false.

    But that has nothing to do with Liz Truss today, nor what the Conservative Party is focussing on during this conference season. The argument is over, the sutures sewn.

    Time to accept it, and in the words of Keir Starmer, to "make it work".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    "Lay the foundation" wtf does that mean. I heard Truss at the same nonsense, it is a meaningless statement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭The Raging Bile Duct




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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,659 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It means that she didn't have the red tops blitzkrieg the public with a gaslighting campaign about how regulation stifles industy, tax discourages investment and something about cream floating to the top. For reference, turds also float.

    It wouldn't have made a difference. Common sense conservative culture war tactics don't work in a cost of living crisis. Trickle down economics makes as much sense as the old 419 scams.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,742 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Brexit may indeed in irreversible , but what is also true is that younger voters overwhelmingly believe that it was a huge mistake and that it will be a disaster for the UK.

    The key point being made by Heseltine from what I gather, was that the Tory party are going to struggle to get younger voters to support them if their policies and posturing continue along the current rabidly anti-EU lines.

    That doesn't necessarily mean that they have to ask to re-join the EU or whatever but it does mean that the Tories at least need to stop blaming the EU for all their own failings and stop treating the EU as an enemy needing to be vanquished rather than the critical trading partner they actually are.

    Liz Truss can get on with what people actually care about re: cost of living, energy crisis etc.

    She hasn't made a great start on that , now has she.

    ~2 weeks in Office and she's already increased the cost of living significantly for everyone with no plan on how to reduce it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,946 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    You are the only one refusing to stop talking about brexit, also being pro-eu in the UK doesnt neccessarily equate to reversing brexit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    Brexit is settled, the EU would not allow the UK back in now again anyway.

    But the issue facing Liz Truss is not about Brexit, it is implementing the withdrawal agreement fully without having a trade war with the EU.

    Brexit will not be undone, but the UK's relationship with the EU going forward will have to be managed carefully.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,855 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Tory party imploding, 1st Mourdant says benefit payments should rise with inflation while Truss refuses to confirm if they will, then Truss tries to distance herself from Kwarteng's decisions by refusing to say if she trusts his decision making 🤣





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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "Tory Party Imploding" is the kind of sensationalist headline I'd expect to see on rags such as The Guardian.

    Mordaunt saying that benefit payments should rise with inflation is not controversial. Truss has confirmed that they will.

    Nothing more to see here, certainly no impending conservative implosion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,660 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    What was said at this meeting about "reversing Brexit" or "rejoining the EU" ?



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    No no, it’s very much imploding before our very eyes.

    They voted in a new Prime Minister and within weeks she’s managed to cause more chaos internally and externally for the party than Boris could ever dream of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    The Tory party is imploding. It's a snakepit riddled with individuals ambitious for themselves and not their community and country. Wedded to boneheaded dogma and magical thinking.

    As a political movement it has led the UK down the garden path and the cupboard is empty how they're going to change the circumstances of the country.

    They're a few weeks into a new leadership and cabinet, plunging in the polls and sending the economy into a tailspin (again), and the factions are already sorting themselves to plunge the knife into the Britainia Unchained crowd - to be replaced by God knows what.

    It's beyond parody that you're trying chum this one up to a Guardian anti-Tory wokespiracy when the party is in deep crisis mode and East End alley cat could tell you as much.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,660 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Maybe what Eskimo meant was it's not "imploding"



    But in fact exploding 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,253 ✭✭✭SteM


    When Kinnock was Labour leader it seemed impossible that they would ever be elected to power. They had to regroup as 'New' Labour under Blair & later Brown, a face that was more acceptable to the voting public. I wonder if Johnson & Truss have done such damage to the Conservative party that they need to reinvent the party image in a similar way. They need to go into the next election or probably the election after next with someone completely new at the helm that hasn't been tainted by his administration.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,742 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Wow , things must be bad if she needs a hard hat and a high-vis for the Party Conference



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,050 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Truss confirmed that they will? When did she say that?

    So they are refusing to countenance pay rising in line with inflation, as it will lead to more inflation, but welfare recipients are going to get it?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,659 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I was randomly thinking about this the other day. I could almost forgive the corruption if it came with a degree of competence. Heck, take Viktor Orban. Rotten to the core but he knows how to play the game. Awful individual but he's been there for some time.

    The Tories really are the Mos Eisley of large European political parties.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,855 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    When did Truss confirm this?


    "The prime minister has now refused to rule out real-term cuts to people's benefits, and not debunked rumours of a return to austerity.

    Critics who forced a U-turn over the plan to abolish the 45p tax rate for top earners are now stepping up pressure on the Government to confirm benefits will be raised."

    "Downing Street has not denied suggestions that Truss could resist rebels’ pressure to instead increase benefits in line with earnings, which are expected to be much lower than inflation."



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,742 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    They are just in a complete tail-spin.

    They seem utterly shocked at the fact that people are asking them the blatantly obvious questions about the decisions they are taking.

    They don't actually know how to answer any of these questions so they are attempting to punt and give non-answers but the media smell the blood in the water and are hounding them at every turn.

    Their levels of rank ineptitude is really impressive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,855 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Oh my, this is the man who was sat there laughing at the queens funeral!


    "Kwasi Kwarteng has blamed the “pressure” of the Queen’s death for mistakes in the mini-budget which has plunged the Tory party in crisis.

    “We had a nation in mourning and then, literally, four days after the funeral we had the mini-budget,” the chancellor said."


    "Mr Kwarteng also sparked fresh confusion over his next financial statement, saying: “It’s going to be 23 November,” – despite the Treasury briefing it has been brought forward to October."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,946 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    So if im reading this right the new excuse is it was too soon after the funeral to be announcing a mini budget... who scheduled the announcement again?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,742 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Maybe if he hadn't summarily fired the most senior civil servant in his department on his first day he wouldn't have been so "under pressure".

    What an utterly shameful coward..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,855 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    And then we have Jacob Rees-Mogg announcing the building of the world's first commercial nuclear fusion reactor in Nottinghamshire by 2040 🙈🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,367 ✭✭✭Royale with Cheese


    "Their levels of rank ineptitude is really impressive."

    Also highly entertaining.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    It's not even a particularly large party. The membership for the leadership election was 150k.

    For reference, the membership of the Labour Party (UK) is 420k, the CDU/CSU in Germany is 400k, even the SNP has a membership of 120k.

    Being a Tory is a minority pursuit. First past the post keeps them in the game - its imposition would see them seriously atrophy as a political force, which is why they fear it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    It really is quite incredible the speed of the implosion, especially considering there was nearly a 2 week period where nothing politically was happenning. Liz Truss is really out of her depths and making so many unforced errors.

    Might be good for the UK in the long run, surely now the tories will be unelectable in the next election.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,742 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    It's entirely self-inflicted as well.

    They are walking around stepping on rakes every time they open their mouths

    Untitled Image




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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,742 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The Tories will need at least one full Electoral cycle and probably more in opposition to rebuild.

    They are done for now , doesn't matter who leads them to the next election, they are losing it and probably by a massive margin.

    That clear-out of MP's and 5 or 6 years in opposition potentially affords them the chance to try to build a manifesto that is attractive to the people who will form the bulk of voters in 6-8 years time - Those people are absolutely categorically not Tory voters today.

    Convincing that cohort to vote Tory will require a complete re-think of what the party stands for.

    Whether they are capable of that remains to be seen.



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