Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

EoinMcLovin · 03-10-2022 2:01pm

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pixelburp · 03-10-2022 2:28pm

Namor's little wings on his ankles look just the wrong side of goofy; props for trying to keep the original comic look but not sure it translates.

And I guess that trailer tips the hand towards who the new BP will be. Not that it was ever that outrageous a guess...

speedboatchase · 03-10-2022 2:43pm

Seems like the water people want to vaccinate Wakanda. There's only one Black Panther who can stop that...

Cotts72 · 03-10-2022 3:23pm

Had really hoped for a curveball with the new BP, chadwick boseman was always going to be hear impossible to follow but I can't see leticia Wright elevating the character any further or her BP being a primary avenger

~Rebel~ · 03-10-2022 3:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119696308#Comment_119696308

She's also just a far less 'saleable' star in comparison to Boseman, or (who i was hoping for) Nyong'o.

I suppose the major issues they had with her happened well after the script was written and shooting had started, so we may see them write themselves a way out of it in some final scene. Some passing of the torch she chooses to do onto another character.

PTH2009 · 03-10-2022 4:15pm

I'm guessing Namour is will turn good

Cotts72 · 03-10-2022 4:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119696503#Comment_119696503

Well the net is full of rumours that's there's another major villain behind the scenes in wakanda forever and that's why the 2 nations are fighting.

I think coogler and feige surely know that Wright lacks the star power and support and as Rebel says maybe she will only Don the suit for a period of time before tmstaepping aside for another BP

ixoy · 03-10-2022 10:28pm

Looking at the release date, and knowing Disney's 45-day window for the cinema, I suspect that this will drop on Disney+ on Christmas Day.

PhiloCypher · 04-10-2022 6:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119695991#Comment_119695991

Haha yeh the people who think X-Mens Angels/Archangels wings weren't big enough to support him are gonna have a field day with Namors tiny Ankle wings .

Mr Crispy · 21-10-2022 5:32am

The new BP is absolutely confirmed now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cCrp8gDsVA

Cotts72 · 21-10-2022 11:27am

I'll watch but I've zero interest in a franchise with leticia Wright as the focal point

pixelburp · 21-10-2022 11:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119774283#Comment_119774283

Makes sense though in many respects; it can't be a coincidence that all the Phase 4 leads have been relative unknowns - no more than most of Phase 1's stars were back in the day (RDJ notwithstanding). Lupita Nyong'o is the more famous face, arguably, but that means she'd have a career and higher price-point than Wright.

Cotts72 · 27-10-2022 6:55pm

Latest trailer at the end shows shuri picking up the panther helmet but with another helmet beside it..wonder is that t'challa's original or a hint that there may be another BP

Agent Coulson · 27-10-2022 7:00pm

New trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH0KeoB72zs&ab_channel=MarvelEntertainment

28-10-2022 1:15pm

I find it hard to believe that Disney would make a prominent celebrity anti vaxxer the face of the Black Panther franchise.

Then again Evangeline Lilly seems to have avoided any backlash from being very vocal and openly anti vaxxer leading rallies in Washington and she is a co lead in the Ant-Man franchise of the MCU.

pixelburp · 28-10-2022 1:51pm

I'd say the tricky thing is that a large cohort of Americans are, at best, vaccine sceptical, ballooned since CoVid came along; presumably Disney don't want to make martyrs of these actors, attracting the loud & angry response from Fox et al - even a potential boycott from the Domestic market if they're not careful. They obviously feel it's an "Acceptable" controversy and moral failing.

flazio · 28-10-2022 5:03pm

There was a bit of a negative back lash over Lucasfilms handling of Gina Carano's role in The Mandalorian so Marvel Studios didn't want to make the same mistakes.

Looking past the actor's personal life, feelings and beliefs, Shuri was a massively popular character in the first movie and back then Wright's personal beliefs weren't a problem then. Iman Vellani is a practicing Muslim, Rosario Dawson and Vincent D'Onofrio are very outspoken on their personal views on social media as are quite a few Marvel stars. It's not Disneys place to choose a side. I don't agree with JK Rowlings lbgt views, doesn't mean I not allowed to find the Strike novels entertaining. I've probably done business with people with opposing political views many times this week. Letitia has one job. Act. That's all I'll judge her on.

Brief_Lives · 28-10-2022 8:41pm

i downloaded some Black Panther comic stuff, and I can see where this might be going... add that the the people who are present in late night talk shows in America (and the people who are missing), and thumbs up from me...

gmisk · 08-11-2022 7:58pm

Reviews looks generally good...93% on rotten tomatoes currently, 73% on metacritic.

Robbie Collins in the Telegraph pretty scathing.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/black-panther-wakanda-forever-review-drab-crushing-disappointment/

Brief_Lives · 08-11-2022 10:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119850483#Comment_119850483

massive spoiler filled article...

santana75 · 08-11-2022 10:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119850483#Comment_119850483

Yikes. I thought the first movie was poor and way over rated. Robbie seems to be starting from the view that the first one was actually a good movie, which does not bode well for the sequel.

silverharp · 10-11-2022 11:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119850483#Comment_119850483

its down to 86% now , its going to be a slog for audiences to make it through a 2:40 hour movie

flazio · 10-11-2022 11:55am

Fact is, those who already hated the first one, for whatever personal reasons, are going to pick this one apart no matter what. Ignore the numbers and make up your own mind.

Marvel releases both on screen and on Disney+ have been a bit miss and hit since Endgame. Thor and Doctor Strange were let downs so a lot is riding on Wakanda Forever to save the MCU on the big screen for this year at least.

magic_murph · 10-11-2022 12:09pm

Zero interest in this movie.

I thought the first movie was garbage - only for the racial aspect it wouldn't have received the praise it did (if you praise it as a movie)

The Love Chadwick also got was a bit suss - he was praised as though the best actor that ever lived - as far as I know he was never actually in anything good.

This 2nd movie is just cashing in which I guess what all movies do.

Each to their own but this franchise is of no interest to me.

pixelburp · 10-11-2022 12:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856633#Comment_119856633

Aye. Those arbitrary aggregator scores aren't going to tell us anything here, given it's almost certainly going to be a case of More of the Same - albeit with the hints that it'll lean heavily into the mourning of the first Black Panther / Chadwick Boseman. If you enjoyed BP1, then you're probably going to check this out. If you didn't, well; why would you? Outside of the Bad Faith outlets of course.

Homelander · 10-11-2022 4:07pm

I don't think the first movie was garbage, perfectly watchable but it was very average even by Marvel standards, right down to the yawn-inducing, formulaic and shoddy CGI final battle.

That it was nominated for best film was completely ridiculous. I'm sure I'll watch this one at some stage, but I don't really have any interest in watching it in the cinema. My interest in this new phase of movies has basically collapsed at this stage.

If people enjoy them great, but I find the majority of the Marvel TV shows and movies post End Game are complete hollow fluff with one or two exceptions.

pixelburp · 10-11-2022 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119857768#Comment_119857768

The nomination was ludicrous, but I'm following films long enough to know the Oscars is itself a totally nonsense ceremony. If you totted-up all the movies that didn't even get a single nomination for that year, you'd be swamped, and shocked at the calibre of film.

Impossible to achieve, but I'd love to have seen a Last ACt of BP that was just T'Challa and Kilmonger, punching each other in a Round 2 of the Waterfall fight. That's all it needed - but while it's one of the better MCU films IMO it's also utterly emblematic of just how awful the Big Bash CGI Last Act is - and how creatively bankrupt the scripts can be. Utterly bereft of imagination or believability.

FortuneChip · 10-11-2022 6:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119857768#Comment_119857768

I'd echo most of this.

On Boseman, solid actor with some decent movies in his catalogue prior to Black Panther , and seemed like a gent in any interview & public appearance etc. Tragic what happened to him, really awful.

But, he was not the strongest performer in his own movie, nor the most interesting character. So, I'd agree with earlier comments about the accolades and laments being a little OTT

silverharp · 10-11-2022 6:27pm

one criticism im seeing is that the lead should have been recast instead of killing off the character, Bond, Batman never suffered from a change of actors- etc.

flazio · 10-11-2022 7:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858330#Comment_119858330

None of those lost their leads to cancer. Recasting in that instance would be callous and heartless. Disney is under enough hate as it is, leaning into that would have been the height of stupidity.

silverharp · 10-11-2022 7:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858519#Comment_119858519

they cant win then because they will still be criticized for making a film trading off his death

flazio · 10-11-2022 7:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858574#Comment_119858574

Like I said before, they're being criticised for their very existence. Forget what the likes of Snyder, Tarrentino and Scott say, the loss of Disney /Marvel /Pixar/ Lucasfilm movies would only result in smaller cinema attendance for higher theatre prices.

pjohnson · 10-11-2022 8:54pm

Nah a recasting was never a viable option in the circumstances.

santana75 · 11-11-2022 3:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856633#Comment_119856633

I thought the first film was poor and way over rated but I'll be going to see BPII tomorrow because I'm an eternal optimist. On the off chance that this is a lot better than the first one, thats why I go. I'm open and I'm willing to be wrong, despite the feeling that it may in fact be a BOS(Ball of sh1t).

Foxtrol · 11-11-2022 3:34pm

Was worried about this but they did a really good job given the circumstances.

Namor is the best new arrival in Phase 4 - Coogler has managed to develop two of the best villains in the MCU, making you understand and even agree with their perspective. Linking Namor's backstory to be in Central America was a far, far better approach than having a generic underwater people. They even made his wings not be too ridiculous. The above water blue of the Talokans really gave off Avatar vibes.

Boseman's death was felt throughout the movie and dealt with in a touching way, bookending it nicely. Thought Angela Bassett was fantastic, Letitia Wright was okay when she was showing one range of emotions but not great otherwise (my feelings on her might be tainted by her offscreen stuff).

There's definitely fat in the movie that could have been cut out to make the runtime but I can see why they chose to not cut out story arcs due to the need to flesh out characters that were in the background previously and also properly treat the circumstances with Boseman. Found the runtime of this less of a drag than Black Adam, which was about 25% shorter.

For those going there is a mid-credit scene that you should definitely stay for but nothing at the end.

Few more initial spoiler thoughts, will try to keep them a bit vague for now:

Had hoped right until the last minute that there was going to be a switch on who took the mantle. Don't feel she'll be able to hang with the A-team characters/actors. Potentially bringing her into a young avengers group might make sense.

The reveal on the ancestral plane was great - the cinema I was in exploded. Feel he's definitely returning in Secret Wars

Namor being mutant and living so long opens a door to saying others have slow aging, in addition to Wolverine, to make Magneto's WW2 story still possible.

I hope the mid-credit scene doesn't have a big impact in the near term future, just a poignant was to say his legacy continues.

Things I would have cut down from the movie:

Definitely the whole Okoye suit thing, felt it was pointless.

No need for the second the CGI battle on water, they could have just nabbed Namor some other way.

Didn't need the chase in MIT.

RiRi Williams didn't need to have a suit in the final fight, just leave he doing stuff in the control room. Not sure what the point of the show is now, even if she doesn't get the suit out of Wakanda

PTH2009 · 11-11-2022 3:44pm

It was a decent film and done well in terms of what they done with T'Challa (I'd imagine they got permission from the family to do it thay way)

The way they introduced Namour and the blue people (when did Avatar join the MCU ha) was OK but where now for them. Also the Americans vs Wakanda story didn't go anywhere and still very much up in the air. The chanting stuff was a little creepy

I thought the girl who made the machine was going to be T'Challas daughter but nope. At least they have a story now with there been an actual 'heir'

Not as good as the first one but interesting what the future will look like

Foxtrol · 11-11-2022 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858888#Comment_119858888

It would be the most poisoned chalice imaginable. Given that they've passed on mantle in the comics it makes sense to do it in the movies too, it was probably going to happen at some point - the unfortunate circumstances just led to it happening a few movies sooner

Foxtrol · 11-11-2022 4:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861973#Comment_119861973

Yeah, it seemed like a real reset movie - Namor was always going to be the bad guy but it was originally supposed to be T'Challa dealing with trauma post blip. Unfortunate that they didn't get to tell that story, as the impact of the blip has been touched on in bits across multiple movies and shows but this would have been the first time a core character dealt with it

This movie set up the US lust for Vibranium and advanced tech so I'd be shocked if that isnt built on across multiple shows/movies that leads to a flash point - like we saw the anti-Avengers sentiment build in Ultron and then become the core of Civil War. Eventually they'll discover Talokans or Namor will feel threatened in some way and appear again.

PTH2009 · 11-11-2022 4:21pm

Wish a certain Doctor appeared as no doubt he wants Vibrainium

horgan_p · 11-11-2022 7:33pm

The Doctor would have made more "in universe" sense to be very honest.

Foxtrol · 11-11-2022 7:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119465604#Comment_119465604

Had avoided the thread since the first trailer so just looking now at a few of the earlier posts.

There are plenty of large rivers in Africa and in the first movie we hear about and meet the 'River Tribe' several times and even see a giant river and waterfall, where they battle for the throne.

FunLover18 · 11-11-2022 9:17pm

I enjoyed it but it is over long and I can never get fully behind any movie that glorifies or romanticises monarchy.

Mbaku being king sets up an interesting dynamic, I understood from the first film thathe king/queen wears the mantle of Black Panther, T'Challa wearing it because of his father's age.

flazio · 11-11-2022 9:29pm

Definitely the best MCU film of 2022, but that's not exactly a very high bar.

Wright was absolutely fine and putting aside her personal choices, I think for the job she had, portraying Shuri, a young teenager who's had her whole family ripped away from her piece by piece, she did very well.

The middle of the film sagged a bit, after a pretty good Iron Man esque chase sequence, the pace went right out when they went under water, picked up with one of the better 3rd acts though.

7.5 maybe 8/10 from me.

billyhead · 11-11-2022 9:48pm

I presume you would have to have seen the 1st one before watching this.

Foxtrol · 11-11-2022 10:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119863328#Comment_119863328

They explain enough that you could probably turn off your brain and follow the general story but aside from missing references the bigger issue would be that the story is so centered around grief that I doubt you'd relate to it never having seen the characters interacting prior to the death.

DrumSteve · 12-11-2022 2:24am

I actually quite enjoyed this.

The more serious tone actually worked to the benefit of the movie overall, rather than quips every 2 minutes.

Easily the strongest of the more recent offerings anyway.

pixelburp · 12-11-2022 7:42am

What has been the lead time between cinemas and streaming, I can't recall but it hasn't been that much. Unlikely I'll get to the cinema to see this but I'm presuming like the last few MCU flicks it'll be pushed into Disney+ with the same relative speed

flazio · 12-11-2022 8:00am

Eternals was released roughly the same time last year and appeared on D+ mid January so I'd expect the same for this. It's likely to do really well, so I expect it will be kept in cinemas longer and won't be rushed over as fast as Thor, Strange or Lightyear

Penn · 12-11-2022 10:10am

I thought it was an okay movie. Not as good as the first. Some really dumbass decisions made in it though.

Killing off Queen Ramonda was a huge mistake imo, unless Angela Bassett wanted the leave or something. Shuri didn't need it as she was still dealing with T'Challa's loss, and at the end she basically lets M'Baku become King which is another dumbass decision. I get that M'Baku became a good advisor and friend of T'Challa, but he's also leader of a tribe who up to about 6 years ago were never part of governing Wakanda, and given the political side of being King of Wakanda with how other nations want vibranium, M'Baku is not the right person to deal with that. Really should have kept the Queen alive, or at least say they're getting rid of the monarchy and having a ruling council with one from each tribe or something. Also, Okoye's supersuit is goddamn awful. Really overdesigned and just looks plastic. I think there was word she might be getting a TV show. For the love of f*ck get rid of that suit. Hell even Shuri's suit looks very overdesigned compared to T'Challa's. T'Challa's has intricate patterns in the suit, and there was an elegance in that. Shuri's just has a load of sh*te stuck onto it.

Namor was great, really charismatic and played the role brilliantly. I don't see why some of the other Atlanteans were on panels as main cast though, they barely had five lines of dialogue between them.

Riri Williams was decent too. Would look forward to seeing more of her.

Overall, a decent to good film. Not as good as the first, and the best bits all play to Coogler's strengths. But as with the first one the third act turns into a bit of a bland CGI-fest.

FunLover18 · 12-11-2022 10:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864277#Comment_119864277

I reckon it will drop on D+ just in time for Christmas

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

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