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BoJo banished - Liz Truss down. Is Rishi next for the toaster? **threadbans in OP**

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,727 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665870#Comment_119665870 There was an error displaying this embed.

    What evidence is there that she was wrong about being a remainer ?

    She u-turned for personal gain not because of evidence that Brexit was working (there is none)

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    This is turning into a canary in the coalmine type moment ...whats happening to the pound can initiate market forces to turn against any weakness in any asset or economy and could signal the mystery catalyst which torpedoes many economies .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Too much debt, selling stuff that's not real, demand driven by borrowing, societies that are deeply allergic to recessions.


    The list is long



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,905 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665870#Comment_119665870 There was an error displaying this embed.

    What utter crap.

    You are basically saying that Truss suddenly changed her mind about Brexit because the facts change. Given that there has been absolutely nothing positive for the British people as a result of Brexit, what evidence could have helped her change her mind as she certainly hasn't shown it to the public?

    As for complete dogmatists believing something that they know to be false, this is the entire Brexit lie, this is the entire levelling up nonsense, this is the trickle down nonsense, and so on. Are you confirming that the Tories are dogmatists?

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,856 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660879#Comment_119660879 There was an error displaying this embed.

    So you thought Sunak was the dogs danglers and he would win?


    Then when Truss went ahead you flip flopped to her side and said she was the new dogs danglers and her ideas and policies would be the best ever.


    And if you had only left your flag tied to the Sunak mast you would have finally had a win, instead you just look like someone who swings whichever way the wind blows.


    Here's the spectator piece on Sunak, Now it turns out everything He said would happen is happening.


    20220926_115629.jpg


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,808 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    Worrying times for the UK now. The full damage that Brexit has wrought is still to be seen, and now a cabinet of imbeciles (only in power because they could be relied upon to wave Brexit through to keep hold of power) is making decision like this that absolutely destroy the economy.


    But it's OK, old Eskie thinks Truss is a winner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,856 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    More reports of letters going in against Truss, I really don't see her lasting till Xmas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,432 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    She's having a fairly bad morning alright.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Unless there is a sharp course correction, she's finished.

    The entire Tory schtick is "strong pound, tax cuts, economic bonanza" even if it is a mirage and dogmatic nonsense 99 percent of the time.

    They can't sell that crap to the people when the roof is on fire. There's a hard limit to how much you can lie to people and get away with it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,697 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Seriously? It's amusing to watch the party destroy itself like this. They're already on their fourth PM in just over six years.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 94,917 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Here's the sort of advisor she's choosing.

    Mark Fullbrook is understood to have been promised by Liz Truss that his company would run the Tories’ next general election campaign if he joined her No 10 operation as chief of staff. ... However, it is likely to infuriate Tory MPs with insiders warning of a potential “revolution” on the backbenches as the agreement could mean that Isaac Levido, who ran Boris Johnson’s election campaign in 2019, could be sidelined.

    Mark's last campaign saw Sadiq Khan elected Mayor of London. Sounds good except he was batting for the Conservatives.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,052 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    If Truss really believed this action was based on the best interests of the economy she would publish the forecasts that she has relied upon.

    Instead, it is all just 'growth plan' and no actual details. "It will work, trust us!" seems to be the only thing they have. They have crossed their fingers and placed a bet, using everyone else's money.

    Have they accounted for the possible (now actual) increase in interest rates and thus debt interest payments? Where does that money come from given that, in the short term even under their plan, tax receipts will decrease?

    How is giving cost of living pay increases only going to lead to inflation yet massive investment is not? Of course, one has to believe that the rich will actually invest their money gained through lower taxes rather than just saving it. What policy has the government enacted to ensure that earning over 150k cannot simply hold the extra savings?

    Imports, particularly those prices in US$ like Gas and oil, will have gotten markedly more expensive. How will that be paid for, given they recently announced an effective tax price so the tax payer must fund the difference. Where is this extra money coming from?

    Exports should rise, but given that the GBP had already lost value since Brexit and exports were not seeing the full impact due to now the issues caused by Brexit, will a further falling pound really make a difference?

    So many questions, and absolutely no answers. This is Truss big idea, her belief that this is the right course. Yet she cannot articulate why, apart from 'Growth'. And that is really what is spooking the markets. Not the drop in the higher tax rate, not the borrowing. Its the apparent lack of any actual plan, any actual economic policy apart from hope in growth. The markets don't care that the poor aren't being treated fairly. They don't care how crazy it is to allow bankers bonuses yet remove 120k social welfare recipients unless they work harder. They only care that none of this is based on anything other than hope and some crazy notion that tricky down will work this time when it never has before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,052 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Pointless at this stage. The Tories have no choice but to sit tight and hope this works. Give themselves to 2024 and hope that something turns up. To even try to remove Truss now would be electoral suicide. It appears that Truss is electoral suicide anyway, but there is always the hope that something comes up.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You are missing his Penny Mordaunt phase, when she was briefly the favourite. He only became Liz Truss's no.1 fan when it became obvious she was going to win

    Just prior to that his musings on Truss included...

    "Liz Truss, in the round, doesn't project a vision for the country.

    She doesn't appear to have the oratorical and rhetorical skills you need to campaign effectively. She doesn't have a defined politics of what she believes and what she doesn't believe. She doesn't have zeal and energy; it's all a bit May-esque. Boris Johnson and Brexit were two very different beasts in comparison.

    For an election against Labour, you cannot just rely on minimalistic talking points.

    Detail and vision matter. I don't think Truss has either of these, and when you throw her disappointing performances into the mix, you have a recipe for disaster."


    "I've said it since the beginning of this contest. A vote for Liz Truss in this leadership election is a vote for a Labour government in December 2024.

    I'm astonished that she has managed to hoover up as much support as she has. Incompetence in a dress.

    Sunak or Mordaunt, or else the Conservative Party faces electoral oblivion at the next election."


    "It almost looks like a sketch from Little Britain. Liz Truss is the Conservative Party manifestation of Diane Abbott."


    "It would be a catastrophe for the Conservative Party if Truss becomes Prime Minister.

    If I were a Labour supporter, she would be the one I'd want to become PM.

    It would mean that the Pat Kenny cardboard cut-out can finally become PM."


    "Liz Truss is a lightweight, the female manifestation of Keir Starmer: boring, ligneous, and stale. Anti-charismatic, and someone who couldn't summon an ounce of enthusiasm among the electorate, and will almost certainly lead to an incoming Labour administration."



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,697 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Nothing good will turn up. The UK is on a downward trajectory and it's one that it openly walked into. Enriching a series of economic and cultural parasites benefits only the parasites.

    Even if they get rid of Truss, who's next? That leadership election was dire. There wasn't an ounce of talent on display, just a group of careerists interested only in lining their own pockets. I could almost forgive that if they showed any degree of competence at all.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,757 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    How is giving cost of living pay increases only going to lead to inflation yet massive investment is not? Of course, one has to believe that the rich will actually invest their money gained through lower taxes rather than just saving it. What policy has the government enacted to ensure that earning over 150k cannot simply hold the extra savings?

    This is the central failure of "Trickle-down Economics" - The idea that the rich give a toss about anyone other than themselves.

    As a class-room thought project , "Trickle-down" makes some degree of sense. The idea that freeing up capital at the top end by lowering taxes should drive increased investment and growth etc. has some element of logic BUT, it fails spectacularly to account for human nature.

    So what happens in reality is that that money "saved" by the top-end in taxes is just parked in long-term investment vehicles or consumed by stock buy-backs which only benefit the same group of top-end investors etc.

    It has never ever worked in practice and never will - It drives income inequality and inflation , it does not drive growth and never has.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,051 ✭✭✭Shelga


    You’d wonder what the tone is amongst Truss and her advisors behind the scenes. Did she realise the pound would fall this far, this fast? Does she care? She seems completely deranged, and thick as mince to boot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Here's what I've noted about spending enough time around Oxbridge / Eton types to give me heartburn:

    There's a notion of intelligence that they place very a high-premium on that is called "brightness". It's a close cognate of intelligence in their patois, but it's not quite the same thing.

    "Brightness" refers to yes, a base level of mental agility where you don't lick walls - but it also implies adherence rhetoric, mental shortcuts to make you look smarter than you are, a degree of cunning and a mastery of in-group language.

    On first glance, it resembles intelligence, but it actually isn't.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Some snippets from sky news.

    House price crash - Graham Cox, director of Bristol-based Self Employed Mortgage Hub: 

    Unless the government steadies the ship, we're heading for a house price crash of 20-40% over the next couple of years. There's 1.8m borrowers coming off fixed rate deals next year. They simply won't be able to afford the mortgage payments, forcing them to sell or be repossessed.

    UK the sick man of Europe again - Lewis Shaw, founder of Mansfield-based Shaw Financial Services: 

    It has taken less than 18 months for the UK to become the sick man of Europe once again. At every stage in this debacle, we've been on the back foot. We need to regain momentum, which will mean real economic pain. The fiscal event last week by Kami-Kwasi has the potential to turn the UK into an emerging market, or worse still, a failed state.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,757 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Indeed - It's about "looking the part" rather than "being the part".

    They look and sound like they are intelligent - The right entries in the CV and they use the right words etc. but it's all a veneer.

    It harks back to the Officer class 100 years ago , largely you got to be an officer not on merit/skill but on where you came from and what you looked/sounded like.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,697 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The usual attitude one sees with Libertarians is that Libertarianism only fails when it's not applied properly. Therefore, the solution will always be more Libertarianism no matter what the problem.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,518 ✭✭✭Patser


    As said above, letters going in on Truss already


    They are absolutely shagged over there now, billions squandered during Covid, whole country divided on 'tribal ' lines over Brexit which means that both sides will not move on inch on the issues as Brexit sinks their economy, a charlatan in Johnson given power to strip their Government party of any form of dissension or alternatives..... meaning now it's Truss or ?


    She made stupid over the top promises in her leadership campaign, when she already had Sunak beaten; and then failed to use the last 2 weeks of Queen's mourning to settle into an alternate or coherent plan. Instead it's 100% free money for all, especially her mates, as the UK debt explodes and inflation runs rife meaning their currency is worthless.


    What an absolute mess they are in



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 94,917 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    UK growth will need to provide the treasury with 20% extra income per annum for each of the next 5 years to cover this budget. And that's not counting the 12 years of borrowing previously so they'd still be in a hole.

    Bond yields forecast at 6% now. Which is 39% compound over 5 years. So more than 20% needed.

    Pound has gone from $1.4212 to $1.037 since Feb last year. It would take a huge increase in exports to offset that. It would take a huge increase in wages to tempt foreigners.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,727 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I have to say for the first time ever I agree with Eskimo about a person. He got all that spot on in regards to Truss.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭donspeekinglesh


    From the Guardian Live Blog:


    Friday was a stunningly bad day for the pound, points out Deutsche Bank strategist Jim Reid.

    Reid’s team have calculated that it was the third-worst day for sterling (-3.57%) since Black Wednesday in 1992, only beaten by the day after the Brexit vote (-8.1%) and after the initial Covid shock in 2020 (-3.71%) in a global flight to dollars.

    They also looked at daily Sterling moves back to 1862 and on that it was the 41st worst day in history spanning 47,000 trading days.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    if there were to be a another leadership contest it’ll be the same people voting, many of whom have just had their pockets lined by Truss. They’ll vote for whoever says they’ll continue to do the same. Their perspective is very clear. Braverman for PM anyone? And throughout that contest there’ll be nobody at the helm of government (which, to be fair, is probably better than having Truss)

    what an absolute farce. Tories need to be out of power for a while to get their house in order



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,757 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    41st worst day out of 47,000 trading days - So 99.9% of trading days have been better than last Friday.

    How many of the trading days since the "not a budget" last week would be in the same ball-park I wonder?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,757 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Are they allowed to have another one so soon?

    Or do all the "no confidence" vote clocks reset when a new leader takes over?



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,697 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I know winning a no confidence vote provides a year's protection. New pm, no idea. Baffling that this is being asked.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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