Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

06-09-2022 04:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580174#Comment_119580174

So you think with an upcoming recession and a tsunami of price increases on energy, food and interest rates and you think companies are being greedy because they are not paying pay rises? REALLY? As I say your lot have your head stuck in the sand.

Yes, I do think that. Where is all that money going in that tsunami of price rises, hmmm? It's just disappearing into the ether, is it? Or is it ending up in private companies' balance books/being paid out to shareholders as bonuses? Why were corporate profits 4 times what they were last year than they are in the average year? If you can claim that PS wages went up by 10+% and use that as a stick to beat us with then I reserve the right to the same with private sector profits.

Some companies are getting pay rises (they generally tend to be companies not overblown with debt and turning a profit, what are we 3rd most indebted country per capita in thw world with a debt of 240 Billion, yet your employers think its a good call go give pay rises under those circumstances?) but the majority in the private sector are not as there is a sh1tstorm coming and a lot of companies cannot afford and will not be able to afford the increases in energy, food and interest rates and give more to employees in pay riese and then expect to make a profit.

Yes. Some are, when they all should be. The Irish Government doesn't exist to turn a profit, they are providing services not trying to make money. They are a different entity altogether and should be paving the way for everyone to follow.

The CSO do a weekly wage comparison on both sectors so your hypothetical sh1te and bringing up average ages in Africa vs Europe is just that absolute sh1te. Its there in black and white weekly wage for private and public (In Ireland not Europe or Africa) no amount of spinning that your trying with that post can be done to misrepresent those numbers. The figure from the CSOs weekly wage has it at about 20%, ISME have it at 22% https://www.isme.ie/public-sector-pay-demands-represent-self-interest-not-national-interest/ and how much will you lot be getting is it 4/5% this year which is why the variation I have put up is between 20% and 27% . I hope this clarifies it for you.

It certainly does. As predicted, you are neither misunderstanding the numbers nor misrepresenting them....instead, you are DOING BOTH. Your lack of mathematical aptitude is showing again, highlighted by your intense eagerness to portray the public sector in as bad a lights as possible.

You said the CSO claimed the difference was between 20 and 27%. Now, you are saying that they claim it is "at about 20%", so your 27% is a lie.

Now you're introducing the ISME as some form of back up, when you've never spoken about them before. This is called changing the goalposts. ISME data is irrelevant to your claim about the CSO.

Finally, you are now using future pay increases that haven't even been agreed yet, and comparing them to old private sector data (notice you've not said anything about increases on that side of the equation); this is intellectually dishonest.

Thanks for the clarification.

I am railing as there is an avalanche of indicators showing where we as a country will be in 12 months time and I have explained why they should not be getting a pay rise very coherently.

You've done no such thing. You've claimed a figure of 27% (which is really 20%) is so big of a gap that we shouldn't be getting anything. Dig a little deeper, and you cannot back this up with anything even remotely resembling a coherent argument. You admitted you haven't a clue whether they should be paid 5% more or 15% more or 50% less to make it fair. Yet you're still using it as the basis for your argument:

The fact that they are already paid a premium

You're talking out of your hole here, pal. You've admitted that you don't know if it's a premium or not.

Sarn · 06-09-2022 08:32PM

Just to point out that this PS premium was discussed earlier in the thread. The CSO highlighted that public sector pay for the majority is below that of the equivalent (qualifications, experience etc) in the private sector.

Augme · 06-09-2022 08:57PM

With the insulting pay deal and now this the current Government are really showing their contempt for public servants.

And I'm not expecting to hear a peep out of the incompetent Forsa either.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/temperature-in-public-sector-offices-to-be-capped-at-19c-to-conserve-energy-41967141.html

Tonesjones · 06-09-2022 09:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581485#Comment_119581485

Use your increase to buy a jumper?

Augme · 06-09-2022 09:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581517#Comment_119581517

The increase will be going towards ensuring the electricity and gas companies make even more gigantic profits so I won't even be able to afford a jumper.

bren2001 · 06-09-2022 09:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581485#Comment_119581485

That is a perfectly reasonable thing tondo this winter. Nothing to do with contempt, it's to do with gas shortages this winter. I've bought a blanket for my office

Augme · 07-09-2022 07:30AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581788#Comment_119581788

The Government are responsible for creating this situation and now their solution is to punish public sector works for their own mismanagement. That's shows contempt to me.

bren2001 · 07-09-2022 07:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119582639#Comment_119582639

The government are not responsible for Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the subsequent sanctioning of Russia, and the subsequent reduction of gas supplied to Europe. The government are not responsible for the hike in gas prices in the EU.

The government have reacted badly and made a bad situation worse. Countries that have reacted better will also have gas shortages and will need to manage it accordingly.

The law states your workplace must be 17.5C where reasonable practical. Bring a thermometer. If your workspace is colder than that, they will have to turn the heating up. The government are breaking no laws nor are they showing contempt. They're managing a gas shortage situation and will encourage the private sector to do the same.

Chatting to people about this winter, people seem oblivious as how bad the situation could actually is. It is very bad. This is a very sensible thing to do. (I lecture in the area).

fliball123 · 07-09-2022 09:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581364#Comment_119581364

Then why does this (premium) differential not exist in most other countries?

LegallyAbroad · 07-09-2022 10:06AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119582639#Comment_119582639

18 degrees is not punishment, it's a perfectly comfortable temperature.

How are we meant to limit climate change if people react to every inconvenience like it's an insurmountable hardship?

Mother of Christ.

Hotblack Desiato · 07-09-2022 10:15AM

It's only virtue signalling on behalf of the government anyway. There is no gas shortage in Ireland, Ireland is linked to the UK and Norway, not to the EU gas network which is supplied in part from Russia.

Danzy · 07-09-2022 10:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581485#Comment_119581485

19 degrees is not cold.

Slightly off topic but it is bizarre that people view that as a cold temperature for a house or work space.

bren2001 · 07-09-2022 10:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119583110#Comment_119583110

The UK will have gas shortages and is preparing for it. The UK and Norway will struggle to supply all of Europe.

Its not virtue signaling. It is a very real concern for this winter.

LegallyAbroad · 07-09-2022 11:02AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119583110#Comment_119583110

Hope you don't work in DECC.

crinkley · 07-09-2022 12:40PM

19 degrees may not be cold in a well built and sustainable building but my last place premises swore the temperature was set to 22 whilst we sat there in coats, girl beside me had fingerless gloves and a hot water bottle.

feel sorry for them if the temp is reduced this winter. Personally I wouldn’t have the temp that low at home, but if I chose to at least I can layer up and remain comfortable, might just buy fluffy socks and a blanket and keep it in my locker!!

07-09-2022 12:44PM

If my office is cold, I will have a plug in heater under the desk. Like I have done for years.

They can basically fcuk off if they think I'm sitting in a cold office.

crinkley · 07-09-2022 12:58PM

My last heater got confiscated I should return and reclaim it!!

07-09-2022 01:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119583980#Comment_119583980

Ours were supplied to us.

I have no problem bringing one of my own if necessary - or I'll just WFH fulltime, whatever they prefer. (Suits me!)

Not sitting in a cold office for anyone.

LegallyAbroad · 07-09-2022 02:04PM

If you're cold in a 19 degree office you should probably see a doctor.

AndrewJRenko · 07-09-2022 02:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119583880#Comment_119583880

I’ve seen major variations in heat around the building in both old, draughty buildings with creaking rads and fancy modern sealed offices with shiny new aircon systems. In both cases, there were large variations between the temperature at the thermostat and the temperature at individual desks.

crinkley · 07-09-2022 02:27PM

Actually the ideal office temperature is apparently 22 according to every article premises sent us to justify not turning up the heat so no need to see a dr feeling cold below this

Hotblack Desiato · 07-09-2022 02:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119583166#Comment_119583166

The UK does not import Russian gas.

Are you seriously suggesting they will export enough gas to Europe to leave their own domestic network (which we piggyback off) short?

Hotblack Desiato · 07-09-2022 02:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119583376#Comment_119583376

Instead of throwing out smartass comments you might actually point out what is wrong with my post?

High prices does not imply supply disruption.

Hotblack Desiato · 07-09-2022 02:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119583908#Comment_119583908

Ah the Greens never think of the law of unintended consequences, do they?

Hotblack Desiato · 07-09-2022 02:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119584364#Comment_119584364

Right because you can guarantee that most public sector offices which tend to be older and poorly insulated will hit 19 degrees throughout if that is what is set on the thermostat?

We're lucky if they can get the boiler going before November. Trouble with it every bloody year.

07-09-2022 04:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119584724#Comment_119584724

Same, hence why they provided us with heaters! It would be lucky if the building is approaching warm by home time on Monday evening as they turn all heating off at noon on Friday - and that's if the heating worked first time on Monday morning which plenty of the time, it did not.

bren2001 · 07-09-2022 04:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119584674#Comment_119584674

The UK doesnt produce enough gas for its own market. It imports around 25% of its gas from Norway. If that 25% is affected (and it should be), why would the UK give us gas if it cannot power its own market? If the UK is not under pressure, why are UK natural gas prices up approximately 1,300% from about £0.30/therm (September 2020) to £4.10/therm (today). The UK will struggle like every other European country.

Also, we don't "piggyback" off anyones electricity market, we have an All Island grid. The Irish portion of the grid is run and designed by Ireland and has very little to do with the UK. It is integrated because we are a small island and that just makes sense. It is for Northern Irelands benefit as it would be a tiny grid by itself, not ours. We don't piggyback off the UK's gas supply, we import it and pay for it.

AndrewJRenko · 07-09-2022 05:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119585252#Comment_119585252

We tripped the mains fuse at one stage switching on all the power hungry individual heaters while the boiler was out of action. So they solved the problem by confiscating the heaters, as others have reported.

07-09-2022 05:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119585531#Comment_119585531

Hope they sent you home. We got sent home one time when the boiler was broken (again) and the offices were so cold my teeth were literally chattering. We kicked up murder about it, and they gave us the heaters.

Augme · 07-09-2022 06:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119583158#Comment_119583158

It's below "room temperature".

Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

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