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Royal Canal Greenway

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,876 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,807 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    ...like the greenway west of Maynooth (which incidentally only has access points every 14kms).

    Ah for fecks sake. So you're telling us that the Waterways Ireland have closed the multitude of access points along the route that were there prior to today?

    Or are you just posting nonsense?

    This will be an "urban active travel route", which is fine, but let's be clear, it's at the expense of the wildlife. The 24/7 lighting, along the bridges and trackway east of Castleknock (eg Pelletstown), has driven the wildlife out. Now it is proposed to drive it further west, into Kildare. Utterly disgraceful. Forget the residents, these are the actual victims, all because cyclists don't want to cycle 1.5 kms between Coolmine and Castleknock.

    This will definitley help many people beyind Castleknock made the decision to cycle towards the city and back because they aren't fighting for space on the road. This then means less car journeys so overall is better for the environment & thus wildlife.

    Or would you rather that people drove more, simply so that this one wildlife area remains untouched?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,876 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think this came up before when they talked about paving and lighting on the greenways vs dirt paths and no lighting.

    I think the conclusion was there was no middle ground. At least not in urban areas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,437 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Yeah the destruction of the wildlife habitat is my major objection to putting it on the north bank. They keep banging on about being sensitive to it but it's not possible if you're talking about a 4 metre tarmac path that's lit 24 hours a day.

    It's a massive trade off.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,526 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    that's my main concern also; and apart from the loss of habitat, previous experience with other greenway construction has shown that contractors will happily cut down trees rather than working around them, even if they don't directly sit in the way.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,876 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I'm not sure what the solution is to that.

    Since we are talking about a substantial path, flyovers, walls, fences, lighting.

    Its route into town I'd only do in good light back when it was quiet. Haven't attempted (in the dark) since it got so much more popular at Ashtown. Maybe Its better (feels less isolated) now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Chrisam


    Since FCC are planning to move off the canal and use Sheepmore Lane/Windmill apts, for the Coolmine to Porterstown section and use the existing towpath for the Porterstown to Clonsilla section, I would direct cyclists away from the canal, between Coolmine and Castleknock. Use Laurel Lodge cycle lanes (already there) to Castleknock train station, where they can rejoin the existing towpath to Ashtown. Walkers can continue to use the south bank tow path, along the contentious stretch, as they currently do. A win for biodiversity.


    Re Greenway west of Maynooth: there are a total of 14 access points across the entire 130kms.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 509 ✭✭✭getoutadodge


    Are u the Kildare CC official I ran into? His line for doing nothing to advance the Greenway was "biodiversity". If all the locks were fixed and the canals dredged to enable barge traffic again the waterway would spring back to life as regards fish alone as the whole system reoxygenates with use. As it is its mostly a collection of stagnant anoxic pools. Then line the whole canal with suitable trees all the way to the Shannon and bobs your uncle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 509 ✭✭✭getoutadodge



    Heres the Canal Du Midi....

    https://youtu.be/o30nn-Bw6Sg



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,526 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    unfortunately, IIRC all those mature trees you see on the canal du midi will be chopped down in the next couple of decades, as they're a species of plane tree which have been hit by a fungus, presumably brought into france on ammo crates in WWII.


    edit: this report from 2015 does not suggest that all the trees will be removed, which is what the report i had read probably more than ten years ago had suggested:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/17/more-plane-trees-felled-along-canal-du-midi-in-fight-against-killer-fungus



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,807 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Care to point them out for us because a quick cursory check on Google maps shows 14 by the time I get to the Hill of Down as I head W from Maynooth.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,526 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    btw, i've heard a few comments that the greenway on the southern bank and the electrification of the rail line are not mutually compatible; if this is the case, what's the rationale? contruction phase concerns only, or operational?



  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Chrisam


    Well, if you rely on Google, no wonder you don't actually know the answer. Waterways Ireland, who maintain the canal, has all the info on access points on their website.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,526 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    you're not doing yourself any favours; waterways ireland clearly does not list all the access points, so is clearly not intended to be an exhaustive list?

    ferran's lock, for example, is signposted at the lock itself for the royal canal way but not listed on the WI site.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,807 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Hang on. You stated a claim and now you expect me to research the WI website to validate your claim? Maybe you would like to point out exactly where so I don't need to spend the day trying to verify your assertion. However, what prompted me to look on Google maps is that I've cycled from Maynooth to Mullingar (and back) and was already aware that your claim was incorrect.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,526 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i was stubborn enough to check; here are the claimed 14 from the WI site. either Chrisam is not familiar with the canal/royal canal way, or does not understand the format in which WI is presenting the information. it's to provide a simplified summary of the various stretches along the canal.

    https://www.waterwaysireland.org/greenways/royal-canal



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,553 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    Irish Rail felt that any path (which would have to be on a canteliver deck) would require supports under the train line and they could jeopardise the rail line. Also, when they work on DART+ it might jeopardise the path's supports. Furthermore they would only allow south bank construction at night when no trains running.

    You can read their wording in the report.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,807 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I just found that. Not sure what WI are basing their access point on but it's possibly referring to villages, etc. #2 is Kilcock but there are two access points between Maynooth & Kilcock (Jackson's Bridge & Lock 15). It was their arrogance that looking at the details on a map could be in any way productive is what irked me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,876 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Maybe they should reflect on that, when they give up land in the docklands that could be used for future services.

    I think a cantilevered deck is over engineered solution. If its too connect the greenway its doesn't have to be a boulevard. But I get why people want a boulevard and thus want it on the south bank.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,876 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    I think he was expressing a view point than any considered research.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,553 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    What do you mean by "boulevard"? Is that a narrow path?

    I favour the north bank option because it gives safe access to the school, Tesco and Blanch village.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,526 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    well, it clearly wasn't considered research, i'd agree there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,876 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    "... boulevard is a type of broad avenue planted with rows of trees..."

    Curious where you are coming from that your first choice of a route to any of those places is down the canal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,014 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    There isn't enough space on the south bank for anything other than a cantilevered deck, that might collapse during Dart+ West work.

    If you read the report you will see what a visual monstrosity the south bank option is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,553 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    Carpenterstown side of train station.

    Coolmine Road is dangerous and I encounter most close passing drivers on that road. Even eliminating the stretch between the level crossing and junction with Delwood Road would make my trips a lot less stressful.

    Delwood Road has a lot of drivers going well over the 30km/h (and a good few still going over 50km/h).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,876 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    Well there is. You could easily put a path there. There already is one there.

    You just can't put a super wide path there, or some monstrosity as they seem to want to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,876 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    You can just filter down through Glenville.

    You'll have to cross Coolmine road at some point. Perhaps with new Coolmine bridge if they build that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,014 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    There isn't space for both pedestrians and cyclists on that path. You can't even walk two abreast in parts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,876 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    Yes but thats only in parts. Not the entire length of it. You could easily put in some passing platform.

    People want to make it a park/boulevard.

    People and cycles couldn't even manage passing each other in the Phoenix park.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 509 ✭✭✭getoutadodge


    Here ya go. Had a quick read and below is one gem floated to scupper the project. The Day of The Triffids meets Delwood😲

    "Some submissions enquired as to what assessment has been performed on the invasive species (e.g. Japanese Knotweed, Giant Hogweed) along the canal and the potential impact of disturbing these species may have on surrounding homes."

    More generally its an insight into the treacle pace of infrastruture development in Ireland generally and the systemic over run in cost and duration when a mere cycle path requires this detail. It's not the Appian Way.

    https://www.fingal.ie/sites/default/files/2022-08/RCUG%20Public%20Consultation%20Report%20July%202022.pdf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,876 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    That Japanese Knotweed is nightmare if you get it on your property. Is that scaremongering or has it been found on the canal.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,526 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i know there's giant hogweed along the tolka, but very little mention on the royal canal (within the boundaries of DCC, i should point out).

    there are more records of japanese knotweed along the canal; again, this is just a DCC report:

    and this is from another report:

    "Japanese Knotweed was recorded in surveys conducted by BEC Consultants near Pakenham Bridge in 2013, however, Natura’s 2018 ecological survey confirmed that it did not occur in this area. "

    https://www.fingal.ie/sites/default/files/2022-08/RCUG%20Public%20Consultation%20Report%20July%202022.pdf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 509 ✭✭✭getoutadodge




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Looks like the greenway is getting closer and closer to Delwood/roselawn. I notice there's been a good bit of work on the Royal Canal "greenway" since I was last down near Leixlip. The surface is completed but fenced off as far as Confey. And further down toward the boat shed lots of the side vegetation and trees have been ripped out in preparation for the next phase.

    I'm in favour of greenways generally. But when it comes to removing a beautiful natural trail like most of the towpath was, and destroying so much vegetation and mature trees, then on the whole I'm against it.

    You can see the difference in the photos between what it used to look like in those sections, and what the newly laid tarmac and kerbstones looks like.


    I say this as a someone who enjoys cycling, and appreciates a safer cycle route for kids. But something has definitely been lost in destroying the pre-existing grass/dirt/gravel trail , the trees etc.

    (the Louisa-Congey section looks completed, but still fenced off in case some poor unfortunate trips over a sod of dirt and sues the council?)

    From a runners/hikers perspective, a soft surface long-distance trail is now apparently gone forever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,553 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    We wouldn't need greenways for safe cycling if drivers weren't so dangerous. Fix that and you can keep the grass/dirt/gravel trails.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 509 ✭✭✭getoutadodge


    I think u are falling for nostalgia. I was at this very section in Leixslip yesterday and beyond to Maynooth. For most of the year the pathway is unpassable for cyclists...or even squelching walkers. Change by way of the upgrade is needed to the entire Maynooth to city centre project. I too don't like old trees been ripped out unnecessarily but the entire project affords a chance to plant trees (e.g. poplars given they grow so fast and straight) and suitable hedging all the way to the Shannon. I've seen little by ways of plans to address enhancing flora and fauna for the entire project thus far..but it's early days. Waterways Ireland will probably say its not their brief. But it's easily done if there's a will. Coralling all the players e.g county councils, Waterways Ireland, Inland Fisheries, Irish Rail ..let alone nimbys...etc etc is the tricky part. Sadly that's always the way in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Hiking boots and mountain bikes worked fine in the winter. It’s never been impassible that I know of. Part of the good/bad dichotomy of being out in nature is that it’s not as predictable as walking on a paved surface.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,807 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Sorry but you're talking nonsense when you try and suggest that you're "out in nature" on the old towpath. It was a path along an unmaintained ditch and the current works haven't impacted it that much. Whilst there were some trees and bushes along the Confey to Louisa stretch, it was poor quality generally with many gaps and so there wasn't much by way of habitat that has been affected by the greenway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Dunno what you mean by “poor quality”. But it was possible to trail run from Castleknock station to maynooth station. And if you’ve walked run or mountain biked it, it felt like being in the countryside. Helped by the enclosed nature of the “deep sinking” in the initial phase, but also the rural environment when you get past clonsilla.

    what are the “gaps”? It’s a trail on an old tow path?

    I see the advantages of a pristine paved route for my road bike. But overall it think it’s a loss, compared to what was there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Sounds like it was very exclusive for an elite few who had the ability to use it in winter. Surely anything making it more usable by everyone is better.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,437 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    They still haven't completed the environmental impact assessment so they're still a year or two away from even starting the D15 sections.

    Yes, it will come at a huge loss of trees and wildlife. Fingal couldn't give a f**k though.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,526 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    It's the old dichotomy. We can't cede any developed ground to a Greenway, so have to go for undeveloped ground.

    It's placing two things we should both be expanding - space for nature and safe space for people to walk/commute/etc. and placing them at odds.

    I tell you, there's been a sudden upsurge in concern for nature in delwood recently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,328 ✭✭✭OfflerCrocGod


    It was a struggle to get a buggy down those tracks and my young kids were scared using it on their balance bikes. So I'm happy to see it paved. I won't be missing the few clumps of grass that it replaces.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,526 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    'this path is OK on a mountain bike' isn't exactly a winning argument, to be fair.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,807 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    You were describing (with images) the loss of habitat and amenity along the Leixlip stretch and I told you that what you had claimed was nonsense because what had been there was of poor quality - it wasn't a continuous hedge but a few bushes or trees which I believe are still there



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,526 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the damage during construction would be a definite concern; workmen generally don't want to work around vegetation and will cut anything down if there's a sniff it could be in the way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,876 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The whole thing is a man structure, the canal and the tow path.

    Probably space on the other side for a dirt trail anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,437 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    The north bank hasn't been touched in 50 years. It's completely returned to nature.

    Unfortunately, that's what makes it so attractive for the planners to drive a bulldozer through.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,876 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    There's no way the dirt/gravel trail still exists as in those "before" photos and not over grown unless it was being maintained.

    If your argument there should be green Oasis in a city then there a lot of other places not right on a transport link to achieve that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,437 ✭✭✭Former Former Former




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