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Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,518 ✭✭✭bren2001


    I do not think it is a good deal but I also do not think we will be getting a better deal. I do not believe in striking "on principle". The 3% backdated is very smart and will likely mean it is accepted. I am unsure what way to vote, I will wait on Union guidance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,381 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Striking now would be worthless and who says we would get anything better if things got better or worse. Strike does no one any good and you can be damn sure the unions would do it in a way which will not be good to open there reserves for us. I remember when we went on strike not the last time but before that the union promised to help everyone with costs as they had a good war chest only to come out just before the strike to go well because it just 1 day we will not be doing and then did there stupid lunch time stikes it was embarrassing to be out for 2 hours and then in again



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Augme



    I agree on the Unions not getting a better deal. They're incompetent though, and thats the big problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 156 ✭✭marty whelan


    I can't understand people who can't understand where Loueze is coming from. It's blatantly obvious her concern is other people, not herself. Personally, due to increment and this pay deal, I'll be earning 5,015 extra next October (in addition to the back pay from February) so I'll be voting for it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,381 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    No I say they are look at me types and look out for themselves.


    Just on a different topic @marty whelan will you be back on tv again is the scratch card game coming back now we are back to normal 😆



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,262 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Inflation doesn't effect everyone the same way for starters, the whole country has been promised additional measures in the budget to reduce some inflationary pressures and there's an acceptance that there isn't an endless pot of money there to go further at the moment.

    That's the reality.

    The result might be a continuation of finding specific types or staff for the service or retaining staff but they are the breaks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,518 ✭✭✭bren2001


    How much would you be earning extra without the deal? It's cents on the dollar.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You quoted one post out of context without bothering to also post the conversation that went on before, that it was in response too. But sure why would you, when the point of your post was to join the pile on?

    You (and others) have jumped to conclusions about what way I voted in previous pay campaigns based on this latest one. How lazy of you. The amusing thing is - I am one of the few, if not the only management grade here who has argued that a better deal is needed for lower paid staff - and yet you presume I would have been one of those "old timers" who would have voted for suspending increments in the past. Really?

    While all over the first half of the thread others were whinging that COs getting some extra help in the face of the costs of living, that will hit them hardest, would make them feel "devalued"? Would make it harder to recruit at management levels? But yet, I'm this awful person who is demeaning and degenerating people, that nobody would want to work with. And its fine for others to demean and degenerate me, with "you should leave" or "only five years left and you're gone!" Well, sorry to disappoint, but it couldn't be further from the truth. I work with a great team of people, and we get on very well. Only twice in almost 35 years have I ever had any problem getting along with work colleagues, and they were people who were supervising me, not the other way around.

    I won't be asking anyone how they will vote. I never have, in any campaign (or election, for that matter). Anyone who chooses to tell me they're voting for it will be told the same as what I've said here, if they want to discuss it. That i think it's a crap deal, and better is deserved. That COs on the lower half of the scale will be lucky if they come out of this deal with much more into the hand, then the Government are expected to be giving in Social Welfare increases. That is the value their employer - and some of their colleagues here - put on them and their work.

    If you don't like my opinion, or my style of posting, like I have told all before you - put me on ignore.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    I’ll be voting for the deal as I don’t think we are getting anymore at the moment with the way things are on the world stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,381 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Why put you on ignore this is a debating site and if I see someone I disagree on something I will answer them if I have something to say and what I think if you don't like that well that's up to you


    Over the last number weeks yes you are one of them you have been demeaning and degrading people on here for the last number of days at least if they were even saying I will vote yes (I may have not been posting here but I do come in and read the thread at time. People are realistic and know when its time to push and time to say yes this will do for now. So if anyone says to your face you will just say it crap and deserves better that is so a hell of a lot more pleasing then how you respond to people here but I suppose you know what you would get if you did that face to face

    I am not lazy I work as hard ad everyone I know have been talking about this we all respect our decisions regardless if we will vote yes or no but I know the majority will vote yes and the alternative is far worse to them in there pockets



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And likewise, if you don't like what I have to say, thats up to you.

    Doesn't give you or anyone else the right to make personal attacks or pile on on me for it, and that's what has been going on for the last TWO days.

    You know what, there is an old saying I once learned for a very wise woman, "the truth goes down damn bitter."

    That's the real problem here, it's that those who feel "demeaned" don't want to accept the truth that this is a crap deal, and accepting it is rolling over and showing our bellies to the employer.

    That is my opinion, and I'm not about to kiss anyone's ass or sugar coat it to be "more pleasing". Either here, or in person. Sorry that's not me.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You certainly spend a lot of time on threads asking when your next pay increase is for someone who says money isn't important to them.

    When it was pointed out to you that people were saving significantly from reduced commuting and not having to buy lunches while WFH, your complaint was that YOU were not saving money by the reduced commuting and YOU were not saving money because you always cycled and took a packed lunch!!

    Money not important to you? Pull the other one. You think I am richer than you and since then it is tearing you up inside, with you resorting to reposting the same gif from a month ago. A month, and still it is bothering you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,155 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    I think it’s sensible to accept the deal put on the table noting that there will be a need towards the end of next year for the Unions and Govt to come together again for new discussions.

    I don’t think this kind of increase has been on the table since Towards 2016. Thankfully the economy is on much stronger footing now compared to the late 2000s so there shouldn’t be the same downturn to follow.

    As noted there are some individual ways to deal with inflation and budgetary measures will help further.

    Hopefully the next pay deal is for at least 3 years too and we can all regroup in 2026 for more debate after a good rest :-)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 462 ✭✭skidmarkoner


    Any idea when it's going to the members for a vote?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 275 ✭✭hello2020


    well said.. really surprising to see such poor understanding of math by CS !

    Guess it reflects the low aspiration , low risk nature of people joining public section ..

    if one look at the wage growth in countries where inflation has been present for last 10 years , minimum 10% increase is the requirement as most of it goes back in taxes !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 357 ✭✭LegallyAbroad


    No, it shows an ability to assess the likelihood of getting a better deal and the cost of achieving same (if achievable).

    The chance of an immediate pay rise matching inflation is 0 so anyone holding for that is simply assessing the situation very poorly.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeh we all know of Officers in our depts like a certain poster on here would argue that black was white. You know the bitter type who blame everyone and anything for their lack of progress. The ones who make the coffee break a toxic place to be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Augme



    I'm not sure many are expecting to match inflation, just not have to take basically a 6% pay cut in real terms and then to pleased about it. Also, accepting this deal also shows a complete inability to think long-term and to think strategically.


    If the Union members agree to a real term 6% pay cut they will look extremely weak and it is basically waving a big that says we can walked all over. This deal is until the end of 2024 and then negotiations will start for a new deal. An acceptance of this deal is guaranteeing that we will.just be low balled yet again at the next deal. The government have nothing to fear, they know we are too weak to strike. Decisions made at this point will pay rates for the next 3, 5, 7 and 10 years. That's the reality of it. Yet people seem to think both situations are separate entities, which they are not.


    I personally prefer the short pain for long term gain approach. Rather than short and long term pain.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This deal is to the end of 2023.

    It's not a pay cut. That's a an incredibly untruthful way to push your argument.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    in fact this is what has been happening for the past decade


    we arent signalling that it can begin- we are just continuing the process



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Augme



    Thanks for the clarification, even makes this vote more important.


    It's absolutely not an untruthful way to push it, it's the complete oppositie. It's the cold hard reality of the situation.


    Because of inflation people's purchasing power is drastically reduced. Its the exact same impact as a pay cut. People will end buying less comparativr to what they could have in previous year.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You simply cannot match inflation with pay rises.

    Inflation will just increase at a higher rate thus nullifying any pay rise and also increase the duration of this crisis.

    It's well documented that countries who try chase inflation and the cost of living by throwing money at an issue only end up devaluing their economy.

    it's basic stuff really. But look some of the Union heads will want to be contrary and cause hassle whatever the cost to the country. It's always been that way with old school trade unionists.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭trigger26


    Amen, take over weekly meetings to give out about clouds being too cloudy and can be relied to deliver next to nothing on a project until they get the right training/up to date manual.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Augme



    So you do agree it's like taking a pay cut then?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No you can't equate inflation and the price rises to a pay cut.

    I equate an actual pay cut to a pay cut. If we were being cut 6.5 percent I'd be up in arms and call it a pay cut. But the fact that are being guaranteed a rise on our current salaries of 6.5 percent means we are getting a pay rise.

    Inflation and price rising is different.

    If for example a can of coke goes up by 20 cent. I don't buy it and walk out of the shop and think "Jaysus my pay has just been cut".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Augme



    That's fair enough. So a more accurate description is that our purchasing power is being drastically reduced and the current deal means we will be reducing our purchasing power by circa 6% and you think that's a good deal?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 357 ✭✭LegallyAbroad


    Deal is until 2023 not 2024.

    There is every risk that if we don't take this deal it won't be offered again in 6 months given what is coming down the tracks economically, politically, and geopolitically.

    On that basis I'll be supporting it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeh.

    I think 7.5 percent over the next 14 months with 3.5 percent backdated to March is a great deal. I think the fact that we will get another decent bump 2024 is also good.

    It's the biggest pay rise I recall in my 18 years in. Anyone who thought we would get 12 or 13 percent is off their rocker. Anyone advocating to stand on a picket is an old head union type who would strike if their coffee was cold.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Augme



    I've been listening to the "what's coming down the tracks" line since 2014. And I'm still waiting for it.



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