The Pushback against Leftism

That's an important point. Trans medical services should be part of public health services, not for-profit clinics.

Do you believe we should be teaching kids in primary schools that there are multiple genders and they could be any one of them?

We're discussing puberty blockers here, not aspirin.

Female genital mutilation is a crime in Ireland, and renaming it as anything else doesn't change that law.

Now, if you manage to find a doctor who claims that there are medical reasons for the practices you approve of, in no time at all we'll find doctors willing to approve female circumcision and infibulation "for medical reasons". As sure as night follows day.

Sorry, but who exactly got cancelled?

Really? When did I encourage that now please?

Fair point - why are we so obsessed about this one particular usage of this one particular drug, and not potential side effects of all drugs?

I don't know if you have teenage kids, but let's say your hypothetical 17 year old came to you and said:

"I want a car! I'll kill myself if you don't buy me a car!"

By your logic, you'd rush straight out and buy them that car. Another parent might raise an eyebrow, and say "Is that so?", while a third might reach for the phonebook and call a psychiatrist.

Teenagers are famous for over-dramatisation. And I'd guess that in many cases, we'll discover down the road that this is what is happening. Of course in some cases on reaching 18 they will look for intervention in their own right, and this is how it should be. Deal with the situation as adults, not as minors.

From reading this post and the previous one, it is clear that you have not been following the wider debate.

Re puberty blockers, it appears that those in current use can cause early-onset osteoporosis, which is a serious condition.

Also in relation to the Tavistock clinic, where Irish children were sent for treatment, I will oncs again refer to Sue Evans:

You have heard that the clinic is being closed, I assume; and there is plenty of evidence to the effect that minors have had their genitals tampered with in the US, if not here or in the UK.

So please, enough of the hysterics. This is being done to children - minors, if you prefer.

Adults can do as they please with their bodies; this is not being questioned.

For one thing no teenager is going to suddenly decide they are gender dysphoric - they will have know to some degree that there are gender divergent since they were around 3-7 years old. If a parent hasn't come to terms with it at teenagehood then they will have absolutely screwed up their child.

No they won’t have absolutely screwed up their child for goodness sake. You speak of others lack of understanding of the condition, and you’ve spoken quite a bit about it here and I’ve let a lot of stuff slide as it’s not really that important, but this kind of demonising parents as if they are actually responsible if they don’t raise their children according to your standards? Nah, that’s politicising the issue so you can condemn people who don’t share your perspective.

And that’s not quite true either. There’s a grain of truth to it in that normally, children don’t undergo surgical interventions to alleviate gender dysphoria, only in the most extreme of cases. It has nothing to do with them coming of age or anything else, it’s a medical condition, treated as a medical condition, same as any other medical condition is treated.

Puberty blockers are not reversible, and the effects of them are not reversible. That’s kinda the point - they only stall or inhibit pubertal development in children who are experiencing extreme distress, to give everyone involved time to work out the best way to proceed. They can’t go in reverse, they have to keep moving forward. Puberty blockers just buy some time.

It doesn’t take years of counselling either. It CAN take years on waiting lists even to be seen, if one cannot afford private healthcare or the treatments aren’t covered by private healthcare insurance. Some insurers in Ireland do cover some of the cost of some treatments, but it’s still costly if people didn’t have the money before then to find out their child is transgender and wishes to transition. It can financially bankrupt families, so saying they screwed up their children when I’ve met families who are struggling to protect their children and want them to have whatever treatment they need, but the public healthcare system is slow as treacle and they don’t have the means to go private?

It’s not as black and white as your politics only allows you to make out, and it’s just plain nasty to suggest to any parents that they’ve screwed up their children.

This describes leftism perfectly:

"For when the understanding, unclouded by passion acts freely and clearly, it is able to detect the truth and to penetrate into the evil which is hidden under a fair appearance and into the good which is veiled by a semblance of evil" - Lorenzo Scupoli (1589)

A single article quoted by a news organisation. Articles such as that are usually hedged by all sorts of perhaps, maybes, possiblys and so on. The general thrust may be true - but then again it could be down to a placebo effect. Was it a double blind trial?

Then there is this bit from an earlier post of yours:

I'd reply with an article originally published in the Daily Telegraph, relating to a court case in 2018:

Of course if the appropriate clients are over 16 this is moot, but it certainly gives pause for thought.

PS - a judge is not an expert in medicine - which makes that case deeply troubling in its negative consequences.in the denial of appropriate treatment.

Judges aren’t required to be experts in medicine to make determinations about legal matters, in this case the law regarding adolescents capacity to give informed consent to treatment. As it turns out out, the Appeal Court later determined that it was doctors were in the best position to make decisions in medical matters, such as determining competency to understand informed consent -

https://www.irishlegal.com/articles/analysis-gillick-competence-wins-the-day-in-puberty-blockers-appeal

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/17/appeal-court-overturns-uk-puberty-blockers-ruling-for-under-16s-tavistock-keira-bell

Do you think you've tapped into some unique source of wisdom that the expert and experienced medics who deal with trans people aren't aware of? They know well that teenagers can be dramatic. They know well that some of the treatments are life changing and have potential side effects. They know well that a small number of people may transition in error and may need to retransition. They deal with all these scenarios as a routine part of each person that they deal with. They're the experts, not the boards.ie lads.

So life changing drugs and surgery to dramatically improve the quality of life of the teenager are a problem for you?

Maybe you should have bolded the other bit? into the good which is veiled by a semblance of evil

Do you need someone to explain the difference between 'availability of medical treatments, under expert medical supervision and advice' and 'encouraging chemical castration'. It's interesting to see how you need to exaggerate things in order to argue with them.

Are you saying then, that any drugs which have irreversible effects should not be given to children? Are you saying that exposing children to the irreversible effects of puberty is somehow always a good thing and always a better option?

How old do you have to be to understand that 'there's no going back'?