Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

Subzero3 · 24-08-2022 11:21AM

..

Subzero3 · 24-08-2022 11:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514679#Comment_119514679

Did i ask you? Stop spamming and let him respond.

Boggles · 24-08-2022 11:32AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514675#Comment_119514675

Sorry comrade, you seem to be suggesting that they were legitimate targets.

So you in your own time could you provide a source for you claim, I understand linking to Russia Today may be problematic.

TaurenDruid · 24-08-2022 11:34AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514696#Comment_119514696

I'm not spamming, and as far as I know me posting and asking you a question doesn't actually prevent anyone else from posting. My question is a genuine one - what is it you're trying to prove, here?

24-08-2022 11:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514646#Comment_119514646

Love how my anecdote is not data (although technically it would be "data"), whereas your opinion somehow trumps my post. Also, I didn't say anything about the colour of a persons skin. I referred to the priorities they've placed in how they determine who they're going to help. You shifted goalposts, rather than dealing with my main point.

And you're misrepresenting the posts to the thread. I've seen very few posters "attacking" the refugees. They're criticising the policies being implemented by the government, and agencies who have brought the refugees here and the provisions being supplied for them. No doubt you'll dismiss this distinction, as you've raised this previously, and I've pointed out the difference before too.

They (the posters) aren't claiming to have done anything to help. They're being honest in their views. I have done some volunteer teaching for Ukrainians, just as I do it for other disadvantaged groups in my community, but I would still be very critical of the responses by our government in how they've handled the refugee situation. You don't have to be one or the other. I can help out, while also being concerned over what's been happening. Just as those here, can be critical without offering to help, although technically, as taxpayers they're already helping out.

As for being mugs, we all have different priorities, and in any case, in most volunteer positions there is usually some compensation offered for our expenses. Sometimes there's not, but we're aware of that in advance, and can have an alternative source of income to cover the loss. I gain from my involvement. There's always a degree of self-interest involved in what we do.. and I learned that from family members who served as missionaries abroad. Honest awareness of why people behave the way they do. Very few people are truly selfless.. it's just a matter of finding out what they're getting out of the arrangement.

Lastly, regarding keyboard warriors that's simply a mark of the internet, and considering the aggressive tone of many of your posts, you could easily be classed as such. We're on an anonymous forum, with no real way of determining what people claim is true or not. I've learned to take all such claims with a hefty pinch of salt. Counter what posters say, don't dismiss them out of hand (keyboard Warriors) just because you disagree with them.

Subzero3 · 24-08-2022 11:55AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514747#Comment_119514747

So one stadium not 2, as you originally claimed.

bb12 · 24-08-2022 12:35PM

so apparently it was announced in ukraine today that women are to be conscripted into the armed forces from oct 1st. the ukr army must be running out of bodies...wonder will this lead to an increased exodus from the country

TaurenDruid · 24-08-2022 12:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514772#Comment_119514772

And you're misrepresenting the posts to the thread. I've seen very few posters "attacking" the refugees.

Really!? I'm not about to go back through the last few pages to find you examples, but the mild attacks range from "they're ungrateful, they're rude", "they've a sense of entitlement" and a general painting of them all as somehow unworthy of being here. The "they've all got big cars, I seem them parked up all day in their BMWs and I even saw one guy in a baseball cap!". Apparently all of Ukraine is corrupt (absolutely **** rich, in a country that has had two tax amnesties and half a dozen tribunals in the last couple of decades, and currently has a minister responsible for corporate regulation apologising to the Dáil for not declaring his properties, lobbying for more funding for funds he benefits from, and not obeying fire regulations!)

This attack posts go from those, through to "they're scroungers", "they're all economic migrants" and all the way up to "they're leeches."

I absolutely get people's anger with the government. This is not that.

fly_agaric · 24-08-2022 01:18PM

^^ Yes, too much of that sentiment posted and approved of each day to just dismiss it as unrepresentative of the thread (or those mentioning it as misrepresenting the content). Not wanting to see something because it is a bit ugly doesn't make it disappear.

Subzero3 · 24-08-2022 01:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515030#Comment_119515030

More to the point, will the women who came here return to fight for the motherland?

iamwhoiam · 24-08-2022 01:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515370#Comment_119515370

Fortunately I don’t think it represents much else other than this thread . I haven’t heard anyone in real life express the kind of dislike expressed by some on this thread . But it seems to be the same few just repeating it daily

A man on FB asks for help with stuff for Ukrainians and this for some reason annoys people . I don’t understand its not like he demanded anything or asked the posters to donate . I mean if someone wants to pass on something they dont need then brilliant . I see it every day on my local free cycle page to and I admire it as it saves stuff going in the dump

Potatoeman · 24-08-2022 01:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514747#Comment_119514747

The guardian and multiple charities:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/ukraine-civilians-army-bases-amnesty-russia-war?ref=upstract.com&curator=upstract.com

It’s not unusual to use civilian buildings during a guerrilla war but it does lead to far more civilian casualties.

Subzero3 · 24-08-2022 01:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515526#Comment_119515526

And that's not Russia Today news. How will boggles spin that

TaurenDruid · 24-08-2022 01:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515576#Comment_119515576

So... this means... the Ukrainian army are evil... and... Putin was right all along?

🙄

Boggles · 24-08-2022 01:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515526#Comment_119515526

Where does it say the stadiums were housing anything?

Also Amnesty International or whatever wingnut that compiled that report thinks it's 1756, where both armies go fight in a massive field.

How can you defend civilian areas from artillery and missile attacks if you don't station defences in those areas?

If you could give a sincere answer to that, I'd appreciate it.

Boggles · 24-08-2022 02:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514859#Comment_119514859

2 stadiums, I even provided pictures. 🙄

But I mean it doesn't really matter if it was 2 or 16, you see them as fair game.

timmyntc · 24-08-2022 02:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515615#Comment_119515615

By locating military outposts, vehicles, artillery etc in civilians areas you are actively making them a target and endangering them.

Sure isnt it the same thing the russians are doing in the znpp nuclear plant? If they are drawing fire to it, then the ukrainians are doing the same in residential areas when they set up.

Boggles · 24-08-2022 02:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515646#Comment_119515646

By locating military outposts, vehicles, artillery etc in civilians areas you are actively making them a target and endangering them

Nope, you are defending them, RuSSia is endangering them.

It's sad but unsurprising that I have to point that out it.

Also I'd be pretty sure the civilians feel a lot safer with their own military present, given the mass rape and execution tactics, what do you reckon?

timmyntc · 24-08-2022 02:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515672#Comment_119515672

Do you believe that Russia is to blame for stationing artillery on grounds of ZNPP nuclear plant? Or is it Ukrainians fault for shelling it?

Boggles · 24-08-2022 02:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515678#Comment_119515678

Have you evidence that the Ukrainians are shelling it?

Also these are the same type Russians who dug trenches in Chernobyl yeah?

Fundamentally they wouldn't be the brightest would they?

Potatoeman · 24-08-2022 02:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515615#Comment_119515615

It’s the same issue in the Israel have, military targets in civilian locations. It makes the civilian locations legitimate targets. It also means that it’s questionable whether Russia was targeting civilian locations or there was a military presence there. It’s one or the other, it can’t be both. That said the official civilian casualties are 4-5.5k which is relatively low for a six month conflict.

TaurenDruid · 24-08-2022 02:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515678#Comment_119515678

Last I'd seen, both sides were claiming it was the other side that was attacking it. Unless you have access to better military intelligence than Reuters and CNN?

slay55 · 24-08-2022 02:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514677#Comment_119514677

What’s so strange about that ? Lot of firms accept credit

Subzero3 · 24-08-2022 02:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515672#Comment_119515672

From a dude who goes out of his way to put capital SS in Russia lol.

TaurenDruid · 24-08-2022 02:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515711#Comment_119515711

Lots of firms accept credit cards, or offer goods on credit if you can pass an Irish credit check. Maybe it's usual for Irish credit check companies to have access to Ukrainian financial records too, and to offer decent credit terms to Ukrainians who may have worked in middle-management in a bank in Ukraine until last March but who have been in Ireland since then, with a 3 in 4 chance of not being in employment.

But I doubt it.

Boggles · 24-08-2022 02:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515699#Comment_119515699

Wait, hang on, you think it's questionable that Russia are targeting civilian areas?

What military presence was in Bucha?

Absolutely fúcking shameful.

Boggles · 24-08-2022 02:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515720#Comment_119515720

Hit a nerve?

timmyntc · 24-08-2022 02:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515697#Comment_119515697

ah yes, because the Russians who occupy the plant and its grounds 100% (a plant which is not a frontline in any way), are also shelling the very plant they occupy. Makes perfect sense.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515703#Comment_119515703

The most recent statements from UN are that Russia accused the Ukrainians of shelling the plant, which the Ukrainians deny. They did not make any claims of their own. Regardless, who said what is largely irrelevant because of course each side blames the other. What is of relevance, is this:

Recent weeks have seen an escalation in shelling in and around Europe’s largest nuclear facility.

The Council meeting was requested by Russia, whose forces have occupied the plant since March, or shortly after the start of the war, while Ukrainian personnel continue to carry out their on-site operations.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/08/1125292

Subzero3 · 24-08-2022 02:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515731#Comment_119515731

No I couldn't care less about Russia. I just feel sorry for you, its sad.

Potatoeman · 24-08-2022 02:28PM

You’re calling me shameful when you’re taking a pop at Amnesty international. You might want to look in the mirror.

I don’t believe either side. Both are lying to push their own narrative. We are hearing it’s unsafe and people should get out but can still go on holidays there. We are told Russian missiles are completely inaccurate but are targeting civilians with deadly accuracy. That Russians are targeting civilians but that it’s ok for military to use these buildings. Try a dose of objectivity.

Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

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