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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I hate to say it but I think you're right - the Greens are the new industrialists and promoting Green Tech as The Solution is a large part of Green thinking now. Probably a bit unfair to them as they've been pushed to this position by an economy and public that demands growth and increases in living standards. If they want to align with this and get votes, kinda inevitable that it's about Green industry now. Douthwaite wouldn't be too pleased I expect.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    shutting relatively modern peat plants like Shannonbridge and West Offaly in 2020

    Closed when planning permission was refused to extend the life of them.

    doing absolutely nothing to plan for closure of the two most polluting, but also the most powerful, stations in the country, Tarbet (HFO) and Moneypoint (coal) - an additional loss of 1.5GW of generation coming down the line

    Not being closed until alternatives are in place i.e. Wind/gas etc

    refusing to build any new significant generation capacity that isn't wind, and which can't be relied upon to provide a stable baseload supply.

    9 new gas power plants have been given the green light by Cabinet in the last 18 months.

    1 new 500MW interconnector will be operational in 2024 to Wales

    1 new 700MW interconnector to France is being designed and is funded.

    Several GW of solar has been approved at the most recent auction

    And so on



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭KildareP


    Closed when planning permission was refused to extend the life of them.

    Right - but nothing was put in place beforehand in the event planning was refused? Did no-one think that maybe planning would be refused?

    Not being closed until alternatives are in place i.e. Wind/gas etc

    These plants are getting to the point where they can't be relied on, their efficiency is ~20-30% and they'll need major overhaul if they are to continue operating indefinitely. We should have been lining up their replacements 5 years ago.

    9 new gas power plants have been given the green light by Cabinet in the last 18 months.

    These aren't expected to be completed and in-place until 2024, some are still at planning, some are peaker plants as opposed to baseload.

    In total, they will contribute just over 1.1GW which means we're still facing a net loss to overall generation once Tarbert and Moneypoint are factored out of the equation and don't even come close to meeting future energy demands.

    1 new 500MW interconnector will be operational in 2024 to Wales

    A 500MW interconnector will only give 500MW if there's 500MW on the far side to be given.

    If we can run the interconnector at 500MW import at all times, then it combined with the above new gas plants will just cover the loss in generation capacity from Moneypoint and only leave us back where we're at today.

    1 new 700MW interconnector to France is being designed and is funded.

    As above re: availability for import being there. Due to come online 2026/2027.

    If we can run the 700MW interconnector at maximum import during winter it will cover the vast majority of the demand from the 600k heat-pumps proposed by 2030.

    Several GW of solar has been approved at the most recent auction

    Useful for curbing fossil use in daytime summer hours, but generally useless for our absolute peak demand periods, which are typically the cold, dark winter nights.

    And so on

    Well I sure hope the key to securing our energy future is in the "and so on" category because the above arrangements will still see us set to have a net deficit off dispatchable generation capacity versus demand by 2030.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    A lot of their voting core (well off D4 types etc..) won't be effected by the energy crisis so they'll still garner a certain percentage of votes but they have zero chance of picking up new voters as we go forward. They have no respect or time for working class people or rural dwellers and would happily see them go poor/cold or have no transport to get to and from work.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    As the leading apologist for green policy in general and advocate of their hopium cart before the horse strategy on energy in particular that highlights just how much a failure that strategy has been, it`s that post.

    From a few short weeks ago cheering on a one man and dog protest attempting to prevent the opening of a gas fired plant to now hoping that 9 planned gas fired plants will save the master plan is such a quick about turn you must be dizzy.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not at all, just giving that poster info, am I not allowed to do that now or something 🤷‍♀️

    My personal preference would be for a more rapid rollout, to a greater degree, of onshore/offshore wind as well as solar and interconnectors etc.

    I don't want to see more gas plants opening up, but I also fully acknowledge (and have done dozens of times in this thread) that gas will remain part of our energy mix until 2050



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    You've just proved the point you are arguing against, we have a now problem and you have solution in two years time, leaving a massive gap in supply.

    My take on the Green movement is they have this notion that they are right and anybody who doesn't agree will be forced to accept the green solution regardless. By doing do they are ensuring there were will be a crisis and we will all suffer. Also that there will never be another green government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You`re still not trying to dress that Ryan fiasco on turf up as some kind of green victory are you ?

    I have been around a while and it`s a long time since I saw as much turf cut and saved as I have this year. This is a small country, anyone that wants to buy turf will have no problem finding a seller, especially with the current energy crisis and there not a thing the greens can do about it.

    All Ryan has achieved, other than make a complete fool of himself with his 500+ and 500- communities, is guaranteeing that there will no longer be any carbon tax collected from turf sales.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Also that there will never be another green government.

    Thats what they said last time and yet.....



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,574 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Were you not the poster who was against the state investing in anymore gas infrastructure? Maybe it was akrasia?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The information you posted, like your post on turf, only highlights just how wrong both you with your preferences, and the green party with their strong arm tactics of putting the cart before the horse on energy have got it wrong and are now scrambling around doing too little too late attempting to fill the gap in the supply side due to renewables being intermittent and unreliable. That should not be news to you. It`s been pointed out to you often enough on this thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    Eamon Ryan has succeeded singlehandedly in tripling the amount of turf cut this year on a conservative estimate yet the greens on here somehow think they have succeeded in making the environment cleaner. laughable stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    And the last time they were out of power for 9 years.... , I don't think they will be out of power for good as we have some amount of idiots in this country



  • Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think there is a good chance that they end up being the kingmakers again, and join a coalition government. In which case they’d still have the environmental brief



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Going to be hard to act as kingmakers without seats.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Not the same level of anger at them as in 2007 and retaining up to all their seats would not be surprising. It is very much their time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    Doubt that when the next recession hits people don't give a fiddler's about the environment and the green agenda will be the last thing on their minds



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    The next recession could be the technical definition of two quarters of -0.1% growth but it won't be as extreme as what we've seen this century. The next election is probably at least two years away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    There will be if further carbon taxes are thrown on and combine that with the risks that there may be rolling power cuts. Greens are very exposed to the allegation that they've discouraged alternative back up generation capacity.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    All of this may be true but who's going to try to pin any of that on them? The Opposition have no environmental policies at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    The public will nail it on, just like they did before. The opposition don't need environmental policies - all SF have to do is to point the finger steadily at the Greens and aim to eat their vote.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    SF have absolutely no environmental policies whatsoever and they only care about carbon taxes and they'd be making a target of themselves. Most polls have The Greens with enough support to retain some of their seats so we'll see. I think they may get anywhere from 4-12 seats.



  • Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There needs to be a green influence in government so they have my vote



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    All anybody needs to say is the Green Coalition Government with a Green Minister for Energy allowed the blackouts to happen.

    All SF need to say is we would have approved the back up generators much earlier or we wouldn't have closed power stations without a secure alternative.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Ev does not need a jump start. I think the reason they use a 12v battery as it's probably cheaper than running a converion from the main bank to supply the 12v for electric.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    If blackouts come they'll be as an indirect result of the Russian misadventure. TBH no solution can address that with a few months notice. SF will be best served by not pretending to understand power generation or the environment, as they would get absolutely roasted by any halfway competent interviewer. Their solid ground is housing and anything health related.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    A few months notice about the gas supply. It's been called a bad idea from the get go getting it from Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    We don't get gas from Russia but potential shortages elsewhere might affect us. The Germans might have the biggest problem in this regard.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,865 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    The majority of Irelands voting population do not vote for Greens. The voters will take their anger out on other government parties. The irony being the Greens may put the final dagger in Fianna Fáil in the eyes of voters.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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