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A global recession is on the horizon - please read OP for mod warning

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,024 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    That’s a crazy decision by Germany- unless it’s for technical reasons or something?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,317 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    Can someone explain to this to me? Claire Byrne just had an leacturer in Economics on with her. He doesn't think we are heading towards a recession as this time we are not reliant on credit, and people have lots of money but is the country not overly reliant on the tech industry this time?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,982 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Putin invaded a European country, his choice, hence sanctions by European countries (and other nations). It's not like he didn't know that would happen, it was factored into the decision.

    Will there be a recession due in part to his actions? Possibly, it's certainly not helping the global economic situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Subzero3


    They didn't have to sanction energy. End of. Even in doing so Russia are making more money now with high energy prices so it has had the opposite effect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Subzero3


    It means all the savings will be eating up but will keep people from losing the house.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,024 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Is the best thing to do, to pay down debt (mortgage) at the moment, (if you have spare cash) as opposed to keeping cash in the bank or investing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 642 ✭✭✭gary550


    Just out of curiosity what has your business under pressure? What has changed in the last while to make it so?

    *not looking to dish out unsolicited advice, really just curious as a business owner myself*



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,982 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    We cannot be energy reliant on a hostile nation that will use it as a weapon against us. End of.

    Putin literally sees himself as Peter the Great, he'll never stop, as long as he is in power (or one of his inner circle) then this situation isn't going to change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,317 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    Which if you have savings (lots still dont) you'll have a cushion this time round, but that's on a personal level. The country however is overly reliant on cooperation tax from the tech companies and if that shrinks or falls are we not in big trouble?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Subzero3


    Something has to give. People without savings will rely on gov handouts. Gov spending will need to increase. And right now the governments immigration policy is adding to that pot.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Subzero3


    Most Irish people couldn't give 2 shites about VP. Seems the same posters bringing up his name in every post.

    I prefer cheap energy thanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The country is massively exposed to market energy prices (coal, oil, gas less so) because we import so much energy.

    The country is also massively exposed to global MNCs, particularly pharma and tech. Less global demand for computer chips for example could leave us in technical recession alone, depending on the severity of such a demand reduction.

    Equally, we could see many SMEs fold in this country but no recession, because so much of our taxes and GDP is from large multinationals. You could see small businesses fold, people go unemployed, but GDP still grows due to American multinationals posting good results on their earnings reports. Another side to leprechaun economics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Ukraine is not in EU or NATO, so any retaliatory sanctions were not baked in. Regardless of whether one considers them right or wrong, nobody's hand was forced in applying them. The EU has agency and can make its own decisions, and like Russia must bear the consequences of its actions, so too must the EU.

    EU energy crisis is self-inflicted, but that doesnt mean its necessarily the wrong thing to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,982 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Apparently most Irish people do, in May 86% of Irish people polled showed support for the sanctions against Russia (it's averaged around 80% support across Europe)

    Even with these insane prices, we still want to stick it to Vlad. Must be all that corporate controlled mainstream media brainwashing us :)

    Back to the topic, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is a catalyst for a recession



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,982 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Ukraine is Europe, and it was just the first step on Putin's agenda. I fully agree it's self-inflicted. We should have set the wheels in motion long ago, but as we all know it can be politically difficult to take action when people don't see a crisis. Hindsight is a fantastic thing. Next up, we need to cut reliance on Saudi oil and Middle Eastern oil.

    Renewables really are the way to go, not just from an environmental perspective, but from a geopolitical one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Renewables need back up though to account for their intermittent nature - hence our reliance on gas.

    If it were as easy as building more wind turbines and we could stop importing gas it would have been done long ago. There are no practical solutions yet to this problem of storage of intermittent energy sources (wind & solar), so even with EU push to build more renewables the bloc will still be reliant on gas & oil from somewhere.

    The Germans in particular are very reliant on exclusively gas for use in heavy industry, currently electricity from grid cant do the same job for a lot of applications.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,670 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Both are valid though. We have cut a major oil producer (russia) from most of the global markets and yet oil prices are falling, it wasn't long ago we were told expect $150 a barrel. There isn't any other reason than the markets are expecting reduced demand and the prices are currently overpriced.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Input costs in the business, building maintenance costs and renovation etc


    Up about 35% in last 9 months and rising.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭Dante


    That doesn't make any sense tbh.

    A recession has absolutely nothing to do with savings. Sure, savings will help deal with the fallout of a recession, but they have zero relevance as an indicator of whether or not we are heading for a recession.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    Sometimes I think it's the government's using the increase to claw back all the money they used to pay us when we were off during the pandemic. All the taxes they're getting will top up the losses.

    It's easy to use climate change and the war in the Ukraine as an excuse for price increases.

    Some people are saying by September 2023 thing's will ease and we'll have a better standard of living.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Couldnt savings put a recession on the long finger?

    Spending your savings means more economic growth compared to not-spending them. The problem is the savings are finite and will run out. Grand if your inflation is only transitory, it doesnt seem like ours is. Energy inflation and higher bills would mean less spending = decrease in GDP, if people dip into savings to cover the extra expense then GDP doesnt drop, until the savings are gone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,670 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Well there's a sweet spot with inflation, excess taxes will help bring down the national debt but once you go passed that and your welfare bill and consumer spending falls that is when alarms bells go off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭Dante


    Going by that logic, I would think that increased savings would speed up a recession rather than put it on the long finger. Savings mean that people are not spending, hence the economy slows down. Isn't this why interest rates get hiked to cool the economy in times of inflation? Central banks want to slow down consumer spending and corporate investment which ultimately leads to people saving money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    I agree - I think theres a bit of misunderstanding here. Savings (i.e. already been saved/put away) can lessen impact of a recession as you spend them to make up for any shortfalls for example due to higher cost of living or energy prices.

    Saving (the act of putting money aside) will take money out of the economy and cool it further. But as cost of living increases you expect less money to be saved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,024 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    so what happens in winter when you get two weeks of low wind output?

    Renewables won’t be the answer until long term grid storage is cracked and no one has done that yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Renewables are a big part of it, certainly in much of the world the majority electricity producer in years to come.


    However, every thing must be in the mix and considered.


    It's the absolutism that is a killer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,271 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Stand firm lad's

    ttf.png


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Fill any airleaks.


    The price of gas has become a macarbe fascination.


    It's a long time ago since it was just desperately painful and frightening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭enricoh


    British inflation anticipated at 18.6% come January. The game is up methinks!

    https://www.ft.com/content/778e65e1-6ec5-4fd7-98d5-9d701eb29567



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    It might only settle here at 15%. It'll be grand🤢


    Next year is going to be a lean year.



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