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Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

19192949697164

Comments

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,287 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    In 2000 , the result in Florida was super close with only a few hundred votes between the candidates and the complaints were that the GOP used the courts to shut down further recounts once the result flipped their way by a few hundred votes.

    However once the courts ruled, Gore conceded and participated in the peaceful transition of power - As the outgoing VP he certified the Electoral college votes in Congress.

    In 2004, the complaints were around pre-election activities like purging Electoral rolls without telling anyone in Florida and when the GOP governor (Jeb Bush) was forced to release the details , the purging list was disproportionately made up of Democrat and black voters. As a result the purge was not carried out. There were also issues around voter registrations and attempted voter suppression (like sending people letters telling them that they were not correctly registered to vote).

    Again , Kerry officially conceded the day after the election and everybody participated in the peaceful transition of power.

    In 2016 - Lots of subsequent proof to indicate that Russian Internet trolls were actively working to boost Donald Trump through targeted social media activities , which is why Manafort sharing all their polling data with Konstantin Kilimnik was such a big deal.

    Again Hilary Clinton officially conceded shortly after the Election and everyone participated in the peaceful transition of Power.

    Then we have 2020 - Trump started claiming the Election was rigged months before a vote was cast. He declared himself the winner long before the votes were remotely counted and then proceeded to spend the next 2+ months claiming every kind of lunatic idea for why he lost which I won't waste time covering here. He lost 60+ different court cases , tried to get Georgia to "find" him votes and there were multiple plans to send alternative electors to the Electoral college. And then there was January 6th.

    He continues to claim the Election was stolen and that he is the legitimate President and to this day still has not formally conceded the Election. He and the GOP are actively seeking to ensure that they have the power to overturn any Presidential Election result they do not like by working to place loyalists in key State positions and by changing State statutes to allow them to simply ignore the outcomes on Elections.

    But sure.. All these are exactly the same and all represent an existential threat to American Democracy.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,574 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    And another Trump organization going down the drain; who would have thought... But only proves he's the best because his companies keep failing so he has to be great because something something but Hillary!...

    Allen Weisselberg, the Trump Organization’s longtime CFO and a close associate of the former president, has pleaded guilty in a New York court to his part in a 15-year tax fraud scheme. He has pleaded guilty on all 15 counts levelled in the indictment against him.

    The plea was expected under a deal negotiated with prosecutors earlier this week. He will serve 5 months in prison and 5 years’ probation, as well as agreeing to testify against the Trump Organization when its own criminal trial begins later this year.



  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Where is the evidence that they "INFLUENCED" the outcome of the election. The idea that because a few bots made some Facebook posts that it swung the 2016 election is a bit of a stretch.



  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It was worse! They said that Vladimir Putin controlling Trump through financial and sexual blackmail and that Russian bots had swayed the election.



  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That's a nice little one sided essay but doesn't explain why it's only ok to question the legitimacy of elections that Republicans win but to question the validity of the 2020 election will get you censored off social media platforms?




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭McFly85


    You’re purposefully downplaying the event. It wasn’t a few bots, it was millions of users data that was used specifically to target people in swing states that were on the fence or likely to change their mind. These people were then specifically sent advertisements that would demonise Clinton and as far as I could see, all ended up being completely untrue. But as it looked like a legitimate paid advertisement it ended up having a huge impact on the election.

    All of this information is freely available online in multiple places. It’s common knowledge. There’s no excuse to be misrepresenting it.



  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wrong. Here is a video evidence of Democrats inciting violence by objecting to certification of election results and declaring that elections were stolen and illegitimate.




  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Democrats have been questioning voting tallies and voting machines for 20 years.

    Here is Nancy Pelosi questioning the tally in Idaho in the 2004 election.




  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Freely available and everyone knows yet you can't seem to provide one link and despite the FBI spending 2 years, interviewing hundreds of witnesses and not a single prosecution.

    Why is it that the people who claim to be most concerned about misinformation are the ones who spread it most relentlessly?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,134 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




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  • Posts: 6,583 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Not even remotely equivalent to events that took place post November 2020 and as @Quin_Dub pointed out Trump hasn't even formally conceded the election, still insisting he won. The bare minimum of normal continuance and Trump can't even manage that. Maybe we'd see less violence and violent rhetoric if Donald Trump behaved like the better man, and admit the result was exactly as it went.

    Frankly claiming moral equivalence leaves this conversation nowhere to go; dunno whether you're a Trumpist pretending to be the Both Sides man, a hobbyist contrarian or just genuinely incapable of understanding the difference but hey. If you speak of "the fake news mafia" or orthodoxies I think readers can draw their own conclusion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,222 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Donald Trump isn't "questioning" the election. He's straight up claiming the whole thing was systematic electoral fraud and that he actually won.

    Without caveats or playing word games, do you believe there was systematic electoral fraud by the Democrats in the 2020 election, yes or no?

    If yes, what was it?

    If no, why are you supportive of such a lie?



  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Maybe I'm all of those things. Posters on here have been bending over backwards to put labels on me. The question is that do you accept the truth no matter where you find it or do you try and obfuscate when presented with truth that questions your own biases?

    You talk about rhetoric and violence but here are Democrats inciting violence against Trump long before Jan 6.




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Equivalence it is. I've seen those comments, they're not comparable no matter how hard you try and frame it as dogma, orthodox, bias or whatever. Did any losing democrat refuse to concede the election? Share that video please.

    In any case: what's your point? A few isolated antagonistic comments from Democrats means what? Jan 6th didn't happen? The election was rigged? I can't even keep track of your point anymore, if you had one.

    Simple question: do you believe the 2020 was stolen. Just answer that, I think that'll at least establish where you stand cos everything else is just waffle and obfuscation.



  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A few isolated incidents???Democrats have been denying election results for over 20 years!

    Why it so important to “concede” the election. Did he not leave the White House, did you see any Marshalls dragging him out of the Oval Office. Is it so important to you that he says those words?

    Why do you think you’re opinion is morally superior to others? I show you instances where Democrats have done the exact same things you decry of Trump and when confronted with these inconvenient truths you scream “moral equivalence” because of Jan 6 or something. The question then is, if Jan 6 never happened what would be your excuse then?

    That’s why liberal bigotry is the worst of all, because it thinks it’s so enlightened.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Do you think the 2020 election was rigged, or stolen?

    Stop stalling with the melodrama. It's a simple question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    Did Democrats bring 62 court cases full of spurious and fantastical nonsense in the form of affidavits full of rumour and hearsay in any previous presidential election? Did they, at great expense, hire cowboy, ill-equipped and incompetent pseudo ''experts'' and give them free-rein to examine ballots in any state, breaking the law in the process?

    Post edited by ilkhanid on


  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You do realise there are courts to adjudicate election disputes or do you only think election disputes should be brought in cases where Democrats lose?



  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Please don’t think that I’m here to be interrogated or put on trial for my opinions.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Sealioning now.

    Strange you won't simply say yes or no, it's a fairly binary situation. Either you think the 2020 election was rigged, or you don't. What does it serve to act this loudly defensive about being asked?

    You danced around it earlier talking of censorship from big tech, or kicking against orthodoxies. Not sure why you're afraid to just say it out loud. But hey ho.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,730 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    What opinions ? If you were giving your own opinions then there would be discussion back and forth which from what I’ve seen there isn’t. Your basic starting point is that Donald trump is beyond reproach and he hasn’t and can’t do anything wrong. That’s not an opinion based on facts, because Donald trump has done wrong and lied compulsively during his term in office on things that were clear as day.



  • Posts: 6,583 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Still waiting on your opinion on the deaths and arrests caused by Trump's lies about the execution of the warrant



  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Can you point to where I said any of those things?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    I have a bias against the last GOP president so that, to a great degree, colours my thoughts about him when I write about him here. That is increased when he keeps making his fake claims that the last election was robbed from him, and US supporters of his keep up that lie. I was tempted some time back to ask you were you filling a Devils Advocate role on questioning anyone who put up anything questioning or adverse about Trump as you replied to another poster that you were not taking sides in your posts.

    I think the Mods will say you're definitely not here to be interrogated or put on trial for your opinions, and will defend your right to post within the site TOC's, just to answer questions the same way you want others to answer the questions you post. I'll fall to temptation; are you acting as a devils advocate in your responding to the contents of others posts as part of a robust debate or are your posts your opinions with a bias towards Trump?



  • Posts: 7,714 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The election was stolen lads..

    If it wasn't it wouldn't be so taboo to mention it..



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,574 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    It's not taboo to mention it but you're expected to actually back it up with facts which gets very hard when trying to prove a conspiracy theory that's been disproven in court, by Fox news and the republican party who all had most to gain from it being true. At this stage even the lawyers who pushed the BS court cases are up for sanctions for intentionally lying to the courts which no, a lawyer is not allowed to do. But by all means; please bring some actual new facts to the table rather than feelings of butt hurt over the great leader losing and we'll be all ears but that's the crux of the issue...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,222 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It's a simple question. Why are you avoiding it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Who is the guy certifying the electors and shooting down the objections? If Trump had that guy instead of Pence, Biden would have never gotten into power.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,134 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




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