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Better Call Saul ***Spoilers***

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,344 ✭✭✭Cloudio9


    Don't know if it's discussed already but what was the point of Kim repeatedly being unable to make a decision or give an opinion in Florida ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,196 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Trauma.

    Her decisions led to Howard being brutally shot in front of her. That's gonna take a toll and it did as we saw on the bus and the life she was leading.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,174 ✭✭✭thegreengoblin


    I remember early in the series thinking that some of the episodes were a bit slow and could do with being slightly more turbo charged. Not that I can't handle good character build-up or anything like that, I love that kind of show. I just wanted a bit more 'oomph' at times. Of course, now that it's all over I would kill to see one of those 'easier' episodes again!

    I've never seen a show offer so much attention to detail. What an incredible little universe Vince Gill came up with. Brilliant characters and writing so sharp you could nearly cut yourself watching it. Outside of Jimmy and Kim, I had a real soft spot for Howard. I loved his mannerisms and his interaction with Jimmy were pure gold. That big moment, horrible as it was, will stay forever with me.

    The Chuck/Jimmy storyline was a bit overwrought at times but it's a very minor issue for me. I'm just nitpicking, really.

    Farewell, Saul. You won't be forgotten in a hurry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,340 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Ah that would have been too obvious. The way they did it the audience reaction was the same as Bill - shock/incredulity and trying to stop him.

    I thought Peter Diseth played the Bill character brilliantly. The subtle looks at the hearing, the worry at phone call, the weariness of talking to Saul.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,340 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I think it was she did not want to start offering opinions, as she would end up being ‘bad Kim’ again.

    A negative influence - like she did when she suggested, and egged on the Howard plan. So it was much safer for her mentally to stay in the ‘well maybe’ ‘what do you think yourself?’ mode.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,386 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    "Following the broadcast run of Better Call Saul, Gilligan said he does not plan to create any more works related to Breaking Bad,[27] but instead was working towards a new show, a science fiction genre piece that has been compared to The X-Files and The Twilight Zone.[28]

    "



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Gilligan#Breaking_Bad_and_Better_Call_Saul



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭The Mighty Quinn


    Sounds right up my street. Really loved the X-Files. He wrote 30 episodes. I don't know off-hand if I liked any of them, but I'm sure there must have been some good 'uns in there!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,908 ✭✭✭Homelander


    Tremendous finale, bittersweet, full of meaning, gives incredible closure. No point going into it too much as others have it well covered already.

    What I will say is that it reminds me how irritating it is when people claim those who crap on poor finales - Game of Thrones being a perfect example - just "want to find something to hate" or "are just annoyed their fan theories didn't play out".

    Breaking Bad landed it perfectly, and now Better Call Saul has as well - absolutely stunning TV in consistency and quality in every detail.

    I can't believe I initially balked at the idea of a Saul prequel, and now I can't believe it's over, 7 years later.

    10/10 stuff. The BB universe will be sorely missed, but very much looking forward to Gilligan's next project.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby



    Yes but "involvement" is a pretty nebulous concept. He wasn't there, had no knowledge of the killings prior to them happening, never even interacted with the perpetrator of said killings.

    All the crimes he actually committed and was guilty of were non-violent. People shouldn't go to jail for 100 years for money laundering. It's the sort of reach an agency goes for when all the guilty parties are either dead or are in the wind. It's an overreach.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,778 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    Now that's how you do a finale to a season, to a show, to 15 years of the best TV I've ever seen.

    No complaints. Just brilliant.

    And now sad we'll never see these characters again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭seraphimvc


    Watched it last night that we synced the episode with my mate in Spain aha (we had a live BB finale watch together back then).

    And ya what a satisfying ending for the whole BB/BCS universe. Bitter sweet nonetheless. Incredible work from the team and I really cannot wait for their next project. And I actually will rewatch BB+BCS soon enough (since missus was so far behind aha).

    Personally, I would like a bit more sweets, like a really happy ending for Jimmy+Kim (with some ridiculous twist like Kim and Jimmy got into the same prison and doing their antics there lol). But I am happy enough to see how Kim still loves Jimmy deeply (ye no Saul didn't work out), and then ya, I would like to think that Kim would visit Jimmy often - get old together - until they passed away. :'(

    And it is so good to see Kim is starting to pick her life up again. And the parts with Jesse (second last episode) and Walter are such nice addition to the characters. Yes, I will miss the whole BB universe deeply. What a beautiful show, THE best show.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭seraphimvc


    Yes, personally I would like to see that. But I am pretty sure that is a difficult option for the writers team - between whether we will see Jimmy did the right thing as a lawyer (resolving the whole Saul thing + made up with Kim), or he somehow got away (again) as the old 'slipping Jimmy'. Very tough call.

    Glad they did what they did though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,663 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    If he got the 7 years in prison then we'd have people calling for another spin off within a year or 2, this way it is finished. There's no more show to make with Saul, no more stories to tell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    Weeks ago I was talking to my wife about BCS and how it will end for Saul. I was saying there has to be closure, and the best closure for him regarding the BB universe and how everyone else was killed or got away - would be prison.

    I didn't want him getting away with it and starting a new identity - that would be just back to S1E1 again with Gene in the cinabun, now it would be Mike in Starbucks or whatever ...

    So I was really hoping he'd end up in prison - for life.


    But now as I was watching the episode and I saw the scam he pulled that said he was in fear and terrified of being killed by WW , I thought wow .. did not see that coming, and I started rooting for him again ...when he had them to 7 years I tought that's what he'd do and we'd get a CODA at the end "10 years later " and see him back at what he does best - ambulance chasing lawyer ...

    So I was a bit disappointed with that ending, even though it is a closure ending, him back as a lawyer just leaves it open to endless seasons/spinoiffs etc.

    But let's be honest, Saul would not have passed on that 7 year sentence - for 80+ years ... in the worst max security hellhole - no f*cking way.

    Should have made it so, there never was a 7 year deal ....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,778 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    ^Regarding that. The seven year deal was a sacrifice he had to make to get his soul back...to cleanse himself of Saul Goodman, to be Jimmy McGill again and to make sure Kim was protected.

    The seven year deal was on the table and going ahead until he heard Kim confessed.

    It was Saul's sacrifice. He needed to do it in order to be Jimmy McGill.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,519 ✭✭✭✭km79


    A little underwhelmed if I’m being honest but a good finale none the less

    Breaking bad still number one for me but I doubt there will ever be a spin off show of the quality of BCS again !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,519 ✭✭✭✭km79


    Well I can’t wait for whatever that will be ! Loved the xfiles



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,214 ✭✭✭wylo


    To be honest I love the fact that they concluded it properly and genuinely wrapped things up, and with no bitter taste for the audience. Not enough of that these days. So a good finale on that basis.

    However, having now seen the finale I do question a little the flow of the whole season in the Gene era.

    The episode where he transitions to Saul was so beautifully done. You could almost feel the pain of his loneliness as soon as it concludes the fact that he was now Saul (with Kim gone). Definitely a runner to be the final scene of the entire series.

    But now it’s making the post-BB phase look more like an epilogue that they had too much time for.

    I agree that they needed to close it off but I would rather it spent more time on Jimmy “Breaking Good” than messing around with all the Gene stuff. Feels like the writers tried to start something but had to wrap it up too quickly.

    I would prefer if they gave us a more emotional and meaningful reason for him getting his closure and wanting to take responsibility for a change.

    Perhaps a nicer way to play it out is that he gets arrested almost immediately after trying to become Gene. And they work it out from there in perhaps 2 episodes.


    Spoiler here for a fairly old movie:

    If anyone has seen the movie Flight, there are parallels but I thought that movie handled it better by taking it to a level where he could just not tell one more lie after the lengths he had taken it to. Something like that would have worked well in BCS with more time given to it.



  • Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well here I am. If they put out another series and its paced like BCS rather than BB, I'll give up early on. BCS didn't respect my time at all towards the end. It probably never did but I put up with it at the start. Plenty of people I know gave up on saying it was slow. I get it now. Choc full of filler. Something clicked for me in the last season and realised how pointlessly drawn out everything is. There's a fair few plot lines even in the short Gene timeline that were superfluous, with elaborate heist scenes drawing it out. It ended well but overall BCS is fairly middling compared to other shows. Not a hope I'd be rewatching.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,726 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    For me it’s a show that always had immense respect for the viewer’s time and attention. The space it gave scenes and subplots to play out is extremely uncommon in mainstream television, and a central reason why it had such rich characterisation and such a particular tone & rhythm. I was as happy watching an episode where a scheme played out in slow motion as I was with the ones with high-stakes cartel fights or major character moments.

    It’s a very different show to Mad Men, but that was another series where each episode felt uniquely designed and ‘whole’ while still feeding into a satisfying overall arc. Indeed, with so many shows embracing a ‘binge watch’ model, BCS was a show that always worked extremely well as a once a week treat as they almost felt like mini-movies alongside a great serialised, long-form story.

    I’ll miss having new episodes to look forward to, but definitely excited to see what Gould and Gilligan are planning (whether together or separately) given how much they’ve honed their storytelling and filmmaking sensibilities over the years.



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  • Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just finished it. For me it was the perfect ending. Some people have been saying that it stretches credibility in that no-one, no matter how much they wanted to redeem themselves, would switch an 84 month sentence with an 84 year one. But I think that his life as Gene was utterly miserable and that was all he had to look forward to. So it wasn’t a stretch for him to sacrifice up those years for Kim. He knew that he’d be looked up to in prison… the knowing smile on his face on the bus when the chants started shows me that was what he’d planned all along. The fist bumps with the other cons illustrates his standing…..probably doing legal advice for cons and guards alike.

    That’s the best life he could have hoped for at that stage

    the sharing a smoke with Kim was a genius way to finish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,446 ✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Aw man, what a show. It was such a great perfect ending. I only watched the first episode again recently and Jimmy arrives at Chuck's delighted he'd finally got the Financial Times among his daily drop off items and that was the day Chuck got the cheque from HHM. The moment we saw in the last episode with Chuck was before that so I wonder is that where he'd go back to? Before it all started?

    It was a really great ending and the bit from the cast was a super touch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 148 ✭✭dmn22


    One thing I loved about BCS was the misdirection. I remember reading a theory that 'Slippin' Jimmy' would be caught after slipping in the Nebraska icy conditions while fleeing the police and that what started his con man success would ironically bring him down.

    In the finale, when Jimmy/Saul is fleeing his house towards the tunnel to avoid the police helicopter he is running and trying to keep his balance on the slippery ice and just when you think this is it, Slippin Jimmy is about to literally slip, he makes it into the tunnel safely.

    Love the fact you sometimes think you know what's going to happen only for the writers to pull the rug from under you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,340 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    On Jimmy’s u-turn in court. As well as the redemption idea. Was it to take the limelight off Kim?

    In the hope Kim would now be left alone or at least treated lightly.

    The self sabotage reminded me how he felt guilty about Irene and his Sandpaper scheme. Then wrecked it at his own cost. To ‘do the right thing’ and ‘put things right’

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,196 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The Kim confession undoubtedly shocked him. But I think he negotiated the 'deal' precisely because he wanted to upend it in the court, in a way he couldn't have done any other way. He knew what he was doing from the moment he saw the graffitti on the wall of the cell.

    Hence appointing himself as his own defence, the courts/law was Jimmy's realm, he could control things there.



  • Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,196 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,933 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I don't think his confession could do much to negate what was happening to Kim. She signed a confession fully detailing her own involvement. Even though no criminal charges were going to come from it, Howard's wife could sue her. Regardless of what Jimmy said in court, the fact he was going to prison and would have had no assets to go after means Howard's wife still could have gone after Kim.

    It's possible Kim's lawyer could argue that Jimmy bore more responsibility and played up his confession and that Kim merely got swept up in his actions and turned her life around after whereas Jimmy didn't, or maybe Howard's wife herself might think that and decide it wasn't worth bringing a case against Kim, but I think that would still have been true whether Jimmy took the 7 year deal or the full sentence, as Kim's confession came before Jimmy's capture/arrest.

    Jimmy's u-turn was more about his own need to confess. Maybe it might slightly help Kim, but I don't think it was a defined reason for doing it. I think the fact Kim confessed and was owning up to what she'd done (like Jimmy challenged her to do but didn't actually think she would) was the spark that caused Jimmy to finally realise he needed to drop Saul Goodman and finally change his own path.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 198 ✭✭Terence Rattigan


    I`d like to think that Jimmy appeals the length of the sentence, gets it down to fifteen years, hooks up with Kim when he gets out and he joins Kim in free legal aid work.

    what a brilliant series



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,196 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    He turned his back on Saul when he put the shirt and tie back on the rack in the mall store I think. Allowing Marian to press the alarm was another key moment, he knew that was the end of Gene too. The moment he realised he needed to get back to being Jimmy was the hysterical laughing when he saw the prison graffitti.

    He deliberately dressed as Saul for the court so he could publicly and sensationally take him down. Kim being there was a huge bonus for him but not the main reason he did it.



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