Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

snowcat · 09-08-2022 10:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119451656#Comment_119451656

100 per cent on this. The mRNA vaccines and the propaganda around them. Herd immunity and all that rubbish has reversed the vaccine movement forever. It is now fairly obvious the vaccines are crap and most persons wont get their 3rd 4th 5th shots as they know the game is up.

hometruths · 09-08-2022 10:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119451703#Comment_119451703

Yes, and if governments had simply said "Ok this is not working out as well as we'd hoped in preventing infection, we're just going to recommend vaccinating the elderly and the vulnerable" people would understand that.

But instead they doubled down with the vaccines are so amazing we need vaccine passports to encourage uptake, and let's start thinking about mandates.

This has done huge damage.

odyssey06 · 09-08-2022 10:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119451727#Comment_119451727

Why would they have said that? It would have been false based on the information available for the vaccines in trials and in performance versus the pre-Omicron variants.

In the Lancet study there were 3 times as many cases in unvaccinated as vaccinated.

hometruths · 09-08-2022 10:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119451764#Comment_119451764

The point is the real world data showed pretty quickly the trial data was optimistic to put it mildly.

In fairness to Tony Holohan he did acknowledge that the vaccines were not working as well as hoped well before Omicron. It sent various vaccine fanatics apoplectic such as Pat Kenny.

odyssey06 · 09-08-2022 10:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119451785#Comment_119451785

In the Lancet study there were 3 times as many cases in unvaccinated as vaccinated.

Your point is strawman nonsense.

09-08-2022 11:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119451016#Comment_119451016

OK. So You've no evidence to support your believe.

You've no evidence to support your claim that all of the evidence that shows thr vaccines are safe is fraudulent.

In your mind, what's the difference between "conspiracy theory" and "something I made up"?

How do you determine the difference without evidence?

kernkraft500 · 10-08-2022 10:54AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119451656#Comment_119451656

correct, and herd immunity is easily achieved when you don't have a transmissibly active pathogen... it is also easy to contain when there is an outbreak ... both scenarios haven't been achieved yet with COVID ... this isn't solely due to the vaccine not being effective, it was highly effective against the strain it was designed for, but the landscape has since changed...

so you have the option then of:

-do nothing

-use a vaccine which is still quite effective and will reduce severe sickness and hospitalisations

With Ireland's shitbox healthcare system, you know the option that will be pushed...

That can be compared with the likes of the UK with the NHS, although at creaking point, it can and has weathered numerous spikes in infections which resulted in higher than average hospitalisations. Majority of the country have only had 2 or 3 injections, and has been pretty much open since April 2021.

As I said, it's quite easy just to say "this vaccine is stupid, and no point of having it" when you don't appreciate the bigger picture.

While it's not currently as effective against current strains, it's still a very successful tool in reducing transmission and hospitalisations.

if you don't want to take it, cool, don't. But don't try and let your rational for not taking it turn into a convoluted argument about it's safety where we're still looking for some actual evidence of that from you.

kernkraft500 · 10-08-2022 11:08AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119451659#Comment_119451659

I'm not ignoring anything.

No medical intervention is without risk, but taking those into account, the COVID vaccine is a safe as any other..

Of course some of those deaths will be attributed to vaccination, you have people die from regular medical treatment daily.

But to attribute the lot to the vaccines on circumstantial evidence is nonsense...

The preliminary figures show increase of death among cancer and long term heart heart conditions, I would imagine the more plausible answer is these are the people who didn't get diagnosis and treatment during lockdown and are dying due to delayed treatment.

hometruths · 10-08-2022 11:30AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119452928#Comment_119452928

-use a vaccine which is still quite effective and will reduce severe sickness and hospitalisations

And, in the absence of a collective benefit, as I have said consistently no problem if you give it to those who are at most risk of severe sickness and hospitalisations. The risk/reward benefit is different.

Pushing it on those for whom it is of little individual benefit is madness.

10-08-2022 11:32AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453006#Comment_119453006

Yeah, or the vaccines were causing heart attacks and weird cancers..

(I actually know a nurse in a hospital who said there were suddenly fairly young people turning with fast advancing cancers..a lot of the nurses weren't taking the vaccine for a finish..)

10-08-2022 11:34AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453116#Comment_119453116

But you keep shifting the goalposts here.

You previously claimed that the vaccines were more harmful than beneficial for people outside those you deem need it.

Now you're saying that "there's little individual benefit."

How much benefit exactly?

You've conceded that the vaccine is effective in reducing severe disease in all age groups.

You've conceded that the vaccines are more dangerous than the virus.

kernkraft500 · 10-08-2022 11:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453116#Comment_119453116

nobody is being pushed to do anything, you'd swear you have someone following you in a van waiting to pounce with a vaccine.

There is also a lot to be said about a controlled endemic point in a country where the health service is pretty much maxed out..

Like I said... bigger picture

sydthebeat · 10-08-2022 11:36AM

Humm.

We've had almost two years of all medical check ups and procedures stopped, yet the increase in cancer is put down by some idiots to the vaccine, rather than the complete obvious and most sensible reason.

Ho hum, stupidity is as stupidity does

10-08-2022 11:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453157#Comment_119453157

It was claimed a good while ago that the vaccines were causing cancer.

That claim was dropped pretty fast.

kernkraft500 · 10-08-2022 11:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453133#Comment_119453133

heart attacks aren't long term heart conditions, and can I have a link to to this increase of weird cancers please? Anything I have seen is showing normal incidence of cancers, but the delay in diagnosis and treatment resulting in far quicker progression to stage 4.

10-08-2022 11:43AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453133#Comment_119453133

But the vaccines aren't causing those.

That's been shown repeatedly. You guys have to invent a silly and childish conspiracy to avoid explaining why you aren't actually provide any evidence for this notion.

@hometruths , do you agree with this claim at all? Do you believe that it is likely that the vaccines are causing "weird cancers"?

Or will you be ignoring this claim because it's too ridiculous for you to comment on also?

10-08-2022 11:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453168#Comment_119453168

It's only anecdotal, so I'd expect you to take as such..it wasn't down to late diagnosis, they were extremely fast acting (blood maybe) cancers developing out of nowhere..

hometruths · 10-08-2022 12:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453151#Comment_119453151

nobody is being pushed to do anything, you'd swear you have someone following you in a van waiting to pounce with a vaccine.

This another of example of a total wilful refusal to accept reality. The idea that there has been no pressure to get vaccinated is just total denial.

It's similiar to the claims a few weeks back that there is zero pressure on medical professionals to back the vaccine narrative irrespective of whether they have doubts. Total denial.

And of course the extremely comprehensive data on severity.

hometruths · 10-08-2022 12:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453185#Comment_119453185

@hometruths , do you agree with this claim at all? Do you believe that it is likely that the vaccines are causing "weird cancers"?

No idea for certain if that is true or not. But I do agree an uptick in cancers is more likely to be a working through a backlog in check ups. Seems a plausible explanation.

10-08-2022 12:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453327#Comment_119453327

And like with your claims of "pressure" on medical experts, the claims about "pressure" on people to get vaccines are likewise vague and unsupported.

10-08-2022 12:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453344#Comment_119453344

Ok. Great, CQD's claim is false then.

hometruths · 10-08-2022 12:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453347#Comment_119453347

the claims about "pressure" on people to get vaccines are likewise vague and unsupported.

😂🤣

Do you seriously believe there has been zero pressure on people to get vaccinated?!

10-08-2022 12:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453357#Comment_119453357

Nope. People were encouraged to take the vaccine. That is not "pressure."

You're trying to pretend that this was "pressure" and there was something wrong about it because you're still grasping at straws for something bad to say about the vaccine given that you've abandoned the claims about it's safety.

10-08-2022 12:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453350#Comment_119453350

My claim isn't false..it's anecdotal, and was said last June is, so probably not due to late diagnosis, and you don't have to accept it, but it's not false..

10-08-2022 12:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453388#Comment_119453388

No, it's false. You've no actual evidence to support it besides a story about a nurse friend you have that you barely remember.

On the other hand, we've reams and reams of safety data that shows there aren't "weird cancers" occurring due to the vaccine.

Or if you prefer, I have like 5 nurse friends and 5 doctor friends who all say that the vaccines aren't causing cancers.

It's anecdotal, so you can't say it's false.

kernkraft500 · 10-08-2022 12:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453327#Comment_119453327

So you're under duress to get vaccinated on a daily basis? I know plenty who are un-vaccinated and are quite happily getting on with their lives, so it's far from denial, when there is empirical proof.

I'm still struggling to where this point is going with vaccine safety, or is this just a tangent?

hometruths · 10-08-2022 12:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453469#Comment_119453469

No problem now, but late last year it was very different. I was restricted specifically because of my vaccination status. The implementation of these measures was to "encourage" uptake.

Are you seriously suggesting you think nobody has come under any pressure to get vaccinated?

kernkraft500 · 10-08-2022 12:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453213#Comment_119453213

I look forward to seeing the paper(s) written on it so.... you do understand that anything out of the norm in a hospital setup, even if it's just a hunch gets written up and sent to the medical review board for review and possible correlation?

For this not to get through, would mean not only scientists and big pharma are in on it, but also your regular doctors and nurses too.

The appetite for even writing reports like this is HUMONGOUS, as Junior Doctors need to submit a number of case study papers on peculiar cases they have seen to get their qualification, as you can imagine, COVID has gotten a lot of doctors their qualification... having a spike in out of the norm cancers (albeit very sad) is a junior oncologists wet dream, which we are not seeing.

WealthyB · 10-08-2022 12:51PM

Claiming people were merely "encouraged" to get mRNA injections is disingenuous revisionism.

Prominent media hacks were allowed other those who didn't partake. Despicable soundbytes like "how long more do we tolerate these people" went unchallenged. People without "vaccine passports" were outright banned from going into pubs, cinemas, gyms and restaurants for months.

"Encouraged"?

"Coerced" would be a better description.

10-08-2022 12:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453388#Comment_119453388

It should be statistically demonstrable though and fact it isn't means your claim is either true and at most an anomaly or you've made it up/misrepresented.

Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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