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Random EV thoughts.....

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭creedp


    What would it cost to put a new leaf on the road given current incentives? I thought I recently read that a new MG only cost in the region of €11k. Would a new Leaf cost much more?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,191 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    It was me that posted about the MG.

    Last year we got one on the road for €11,200. Also 4x eNiros for less than €18k on the road. One of them less than €17k.

    It will be more this year as the costs of the cars have gone up.

    What’s the RRP of a Leaf now?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,988 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    So I've been in California for 2 weeks now.

    EV's that I've seen:

    2 ioniq 5

    2 EV 6

    1 EQS

    1 XC40

    1 Rivian pick up

    2 ID 4

    Plus thousands and thousands of Teslas!!

    Haven't seen a plaid though. Haven't seen any BMW'S or a Lucid yet. Going to LA now so these figures may change today!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,002 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    What often happens is that one cell in the battery degrades faster than others and pulls the others down as a result


    It probably is an outlier, but it's still considered fine from Nissan's perspective. I went on a bit of a rant a few pages back about how manufacturers test their products beyond their spec limit to ensure they last the expected lifetime. That's why generally the batteries last longer than expected but it is basically borrowed time

    Because the battery is a sealed unit, and requires "special training and equipment" to work with, garages won't fix them. They'll just swap them out


    The batteries in Tesla's, or at least the Model S, were almost hand crafted. The individual cells were matched very closely to each other and they were very carefully put together. Again, they were specced way beyond any competitors batteries which is what is allowing them to expect a million miles from some of them

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭cannco253


    Nissan Ireland refused to look at the battery in our leaf (2016) when we started having problems. As above, our Indy dealer identified a few cells that were causing the pack to be dragged down. Nissan said it was typical wear and tear and would not budge on it. I think it was more to do with the fact that they didn’t really understand what they were being told and just fobbed us off.

    Just like any ICE warranty , most people won’t look at the battery warranty until it becomes an issue.

    Going forward I would make sure our EV’s are serviced by the dealer before the battery warranty expires so that any issues are at least identified before the deadline. If it’s in writing you have more recourse.

    Hopefully in a few years there will be more indy dealers who can help, from outside the dealer network, to sort problems like this out.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    I’m on my first driving holiday since getting an EV. Went smoothly in Clare. Saw plenty of availability in chargers I didn’t need to use. I charged daily in Shannon, once on the DC at Circle K and twice on the AC by the Garda station when I had enough leftover juice that AC speed was enough.


    Crossed over to Wicklow today and used a fair bit so went for DC again. Popped in to Coynes Cross services for a bite to eat and a charge if available. Lucky I wasn’t counting on the charge. ID3 on CCS and a van on AC. Then a Leaf came and was still waiting when I left. I drove the few minutes to Tesco Wicklow and charged there, with a backup plan to use one of the ACs if that was in use. Topped up a bit more on a Tesla hotel AC for my last day and trip home tomorrow and of course moved the car to a normal spot when done.


    At this point, it’s clear that a single unit at motorway services is crap. They should have banks of the things.


    As an aside, I saw loads of EVs on my travels, in all sorts of places in the back of beyonds. Was good to see. Several from UK and the continent too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    I passed the 1000km mark in my new MG. Loving it so far, it's a very different driving experience than the big outlander. Far faster and gets off the mark quickly. Far more luxurious too. The quality inside and out and the tech under the hood is staggering for the money.

    Lots of room, buggy, travel cot, 6 or 7 bags all in the boot. 3 kids and two adults inside it. The glass roof makes it nice and bright.

    Two big trips, 300km to Clare and back and 407 to cork and back. Plenty of motorway and AC needed from Cork. I charged fully before leaving home but didn't need to charge on either trip (but I did so a 3 pin top up in cork over night as it was on offer, never turn down a free charge), I reckon I'd have made it home with +10%. I added 20% via 3 pin and got home with 29% left. Realistically if I was approaching 20% when joining the 65km of motorway I wouldn't have been doing 120 with the fans blowing.

    So it is hitting the 440km listed range pretty regularly. Sticking it into eco mode and you are looking at 460 on normal roads.

    Round trip to Kerry this weekend similar mileage to the Cork trip as I've an extra day trip planned to Dingle too. Will likely 3 pin top up in a similar fashion at the rented house.


    But very glad I made the jump. All the worrying about range and charging seems daft now. Still couldn't afford to have made the leap before this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,002 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I think you're putting a lot of faith in the dealership to be able to spot any battery issues ahead of time. I know that they can all output things like cell voltage via OBD but you also need someone who can interpret the results, and I've yet to see anything that gives me confidence many dealerships can do that

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,316 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Note in Wicklow town Lidl has a 50kW charger as well as Lidl south bray.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭wassie


    The differential in rapid and fast charging pricing I find is a bit of a dilemma.

    On one hand its good to have the ability to pay a premium for convenience - Im all for that. But on the other, there are many EV users who dont fully comprehend that an EVs ability to charge rapdily is dependant particularly on the state of charge and battery temperature.

    It all to easy to go for a quick top up and find you are paying for rapid charging, only to find your charge rate is no higher than you would acheive on a fast charge (eg less than 50kW).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭wassie


    Surely that's an outlier. 165k Km should be nothing for an EV battery.


    The Tesla M3 RWD has a 8 year 160,000km battery warranty so probably somethin in that. As @the_amazing_raisin said, after that your on borrowed time. Battery Management System plays a big factor in longetivity, as well as charging behavior by the owner.

    Increasingly we're hearing of 1m km EVs so with the fantastic tax incentives and low running costs, EV taxis will be hugely profitable unless fares are reduced.

    If you acheive 1 milllion km in your EV you will have probably replaced your battery 2 or 3 times.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,191 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    192,000km warranty for the Model 3 Performance, I wonder why the difference?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭cannco253


    Never said I trusted the dealer, but if you can show there’s a problem yourself (using say leafspy) and they deny it, you have some wiggle room.

    Totally agree that the level of incompetence atm is shocking and needs to change quickly.

    If you wanted to become a mechanic nowadays, are there specific EV training schemes or is it all done in house by individual manufacturers?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭wassie


    If you're in LA keep an eye for one of the two Fisker Ocean test vehicles that recently landed (amongst the 2.5 million cars there!)




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,636 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    I like the Fiskers but they are likely not going to be big sellers in the USA as they don't qualify for the new incentives. Hopefully they do well here.


    I like the interview with Henrik Fisker that I linked to here:





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭creedp


    Warranty and lifetime of battery are 2 different things entirely. Are there stats showing significant battery failure, as against degradation, just outside of warranty periods? TBH if that was the case, that would be a really strong argument not to buy a used EV and yet in many cases used EVs are selling for more than they were when new.

    In any case degradation does not equal failure. And even if batteries suffer degradation they are still perfectly operational especially now in bigger battery cars. In a 400km range car, 20% degration will still leave you with 320km range which is nearly twice the range of a new L24.

    While the Leafs are rigjtly derided for their poor battery chemistry and non existent cooling, there are still loads to be seen on the roads and you can be sure the vast majority are still on the original battery. My own L30 has 148k km on the original battery and while it has degraded to high 70's % it still has been flawless since I got it 5 years ago. I only wish it had a bit more range.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,825 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    If we are talking Tesla then you've made a good point.

    There are no degradation issues with Tesla batteries, they are holding their age very well and Tesla released stats on it (rare event for Tesla)

    tesla-model-s-x-battery-capacity-retention-per-distance-traveled.jpg

    Battery failure is a separate point and Tesla rarely replace degraded battery (as above, not an issue), they do replace failures and have never published stats on this but we all know Tesla's from 2012-2016 are prone to battery failure.

    My S battery was at 91% SOH at just under 8 years old when I sold it.

    My Leaf was at 92% SOH at just over 5 yeard old when I sold it.

    Our current 2019 Kona is 3.5 years old at 97% SOH but we're getting a brand new battery whenever so not bothered about that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭cannco253


    Electric vehicles are already displacing 1.5 million barrels per day of oil usage, equivalent to about 3% of total road fuel demand.




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I think a lot depends on the particular dealer, had my Mini serviced this week and had loaner for 2 days, plenty of BMW's booking in at the same time which were also given loaner cars at the same time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 503 ✭✭✭PaulJoseph22


    Exactly, I live on the Island of Ireland, own property in Leinster and Ulster and have dealt with dealers in both provinces. I always get a loaner car.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,988 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Spotted a Rivian SUV in Laguna beach earlier. It's a big bus!! Loads of Taycan's here. Obviously there's a few quid here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭kuang1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,636 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Someone told me the other day that a $200k annual salary in some parts of California is called the minimum wage 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,988 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Holidays!! They should just rename California, Teslafornia!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Thumper Long


    It’s mental alright when you see the adoption levels approximately 1 in every 8 Teslas sold globally is in California and 1 in every 10 cars sold in California is a Tesla, hardly surprising given on its own California is the 5th largest economy in the world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭wassie


    Helps when you have a Government that has a clear EV policy combined with generous supports & incentives.




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,191 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    What dealer?

    Very generous to give loan cars to every car booking a general service for free. It goes against everything most other BMW dealers are doing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,636 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    There's zero federal incentives on GM and Tesla EVs any more, making them artificially very expensive compared to any other EVs! And Tesla has been able to repeatedly and significantly increase their prices over the last few years. And they still sell everything they make. With an average 30% margin (most other EV manufacturers have about 0%)



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Not sure if it's to every car that books in, but they certainly had a few available. I was at Frank Keane on the Naas road.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    The charging situation is mad. In Dingle today, needed a top up and the charger app said it was free. Got there to find a Kia EV6 parked in the spot, had a look and he wasn't even plugged in.

    There was a woman in a leaf already waiting, got chatting and she had been waiting for over an hour. So we went off to the aquarium. It was free when I came out so plugged in and grabbed an ice cream.

    But if I had to sit and wait in this heat with the kids going bonkers it's not an enjoyable experience.

    Post edited by Grumpypants on


This discussion has been closed.
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