Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

The price to income ratio for housing is much lower in most of the US, mainly due to the reserve status of the dollar and the deflationary effect that has, and there are arguably more opportunities to get rich in the US.

You can get a two-bed condo in Florida for €175,000 ($180,000). If you earn e.g. $60,000 p.a. and pay 20-30% tax that is cheaper than here.

Price to income ratio for Dublin is 1:9. That's more expensive than New York, San Francisco, Las Vegas and Miami.

In Dallas it's 1:3.8; Chicago 1:3: Minneapolis 1:2.7; Tampa 1:4.1.

So housing in Minneapolis is over three times less expensive than Dublin is, and it has a huge, thriving economy.

Melbourne, Perth and Christchurch, New Zealand also have significantly lower price to income multiples than Dublin

No big discount for moving to Canada as far as I'm aware.

Also if you can save a big deposit here, the money will go a lot further in Spain, Portugal, Turkey - though you may be on lower wages thereafter.

As well as that no need of heating systems in Florida, Nit much insulation needed. Aircon much cheaper to install that a heating system. Maybe not as much living area either as you patio/deck functions as another room or two.

In the states wood is used to a much greater degree than Ireland. I think it can go to 85 feet. Balcony's can be done with timber as well remember the one that collapsed in the San Francisco

Thats so **** depressing.

These are the kinds of outcomes that leads to populist parties being elected.

We're just storing up so many problems for the future.

@Dav010

Long post, but you dodged the underlying question. Should those for the most part that study and work in Ireland be able to afford a home in Ireland?

You acknowledge full employment, therefore one can accept that very few expect society to provide them with a home

You acknowledge ghost estates at the start of this cycle therefore government had a significant head start on the supply demand imbalance and get significant advance notice of new high paying jobs. This gives significant time to plan housing supply.

Where is the logic in saying one type of housing was ok to proceed during the pandemic while another is not?

Broadening your search is a solution, but it should not be the only solution as you will end up back at the ghost estate situation you were at at the start of the cycle.

Don't be a disciple for the insanity that brought this country to its knees and had our government sending it's begging bowl to some of the poorest countries in the eu

Housing should be built where it is needed with a range of product for each income level. Private provision with state subsidies that only cater for the top 20 to 30% of income earners is not sustainable.

At full employment with some very high wages never before seen in this country and the lowest interest rates and still almost every house in the country is subsidised by the taxpayer.

Our homes are high value because of insane policies that attack and handicap our children. It not a result of our personal genius and foresight, far from it

A woman in her late 50s recently told me that herself and her husband 'had to' buy a small 3-bed in Bray when they were starting out, because they couldn't afford to buy in Dublin. They were 21. Entry level bank jobs. they could afford to buy in BRAY!!

Another couple, similar ages to the above, had the same story - mid 20's they 'had to' buy in Kildare, because they couldn't afford Dublin. Again, entry-level salaries for both. And the house price was less than 2x income!

Nobody is here asking for handouts. it's insulting to suggest as much (to say nothing of your use of "deserve" in the above), but of course you know that already because you hold the ludicrous notion that yourself and your generation had more savvy than today's house-seekers. Your refusal to acknowledge that things could, just possibly, be worse in this regard than they were for you is blinding you to the stark realities of our housing market.

What's most disturbing about the current Dublin market is that it's so warped that workers essential to keeping the city going can't afford to live there.

It's easy to say that that's a common theme around the world, but it's also true in previous decades essential workers could afford to own in the city that needs them.

All this talk about meeting building targets is meaningless if investor funds are allowed to outbid homemakers. It's doubly crazy when the government joins in the bidding.

And isn't San Fran such a functional and great place nowadays, with nothing wrong with it 🙄

Its also true in previous decades that essential workers could also afford their own home in highly sought after areas around the world, its not just an Ireland and Dublin thing. The dynamics have changed and a house is no longer looked at as just somewhere to live but as a commodity to make money off as well this cannot change now the horse has bolted, but its a bit distressing to see someone pay 1/2 a million for a house or paying 3k for renting the same house and then seeing someone on welfare being handed the same for a hell of a lot less. The rules are skewed and allow for all kinds of abuse to go on.. Look there are other areas other more affordable than Dublin to live within commuting distance of Dublin, but we still have savage demand due to Brexit and Covid and the population increase. This will take at least another decade to sort out and will only be sorted if the government start building social housing on a higher scale again and if a house is social it does not belong to the tenant, it should belong to the tax payers of Ireland and should be used for future needs, we need a stock for those who cannot afford to buy but a tenant in one of these houses (if they are able bodied) should not be allowed stay there without payment and forever. They should also have evidence of them saving to buy their own property in the future and working. The days of any girl who wants the state to be baby daddy should be done away with, by all means let them stay in the house till the kids are 18 then out you go and look after yourself like everyone else in the world we need to get our welfare recipients in all guises more accountable and stop with the handouts. The fact is the government have made the issue worse by setting up schemes to keep prices high FTB, HAP etc. They also have control over emigration which is the elephant in the room we have not got enough properties to house our domestic needs and yet we keep allowing others in without any thought of where they will be housed, I may be called a racist after that last sentence but I am a realist there is a nightmare coming up when college kids flood back for their accommodation which is currently being used to house Ukrainians, who are in fairness having a horrible time of it but we are selling our own population short to help them... The government also stopped building over the last decade and are now playing catch up by competing with those trying to get on the ladder as well throw in the REITS and Vultures and how they are taxes compared to small landlords and the government seem to be doing their best to phuck over Irish people in helping out everyone else from the outside....

The government subsidized their education so they've no reason to believe they did it all themselves.

It's not sustainable that essential workers can't afford to live in the city that needs them. We're at the stage now where specialists are withdrawing from job offers in Ireland because the living expenses negate the benefit of the higher wage that initially attracted them.

My wife works in a medical specialty with major staff shortages and the growing trend of recent years is those who come to Ireland only last a couple of years with most leaving for lower wage in more affordable markets where starting a family is sustainable.

I've encountered immigrants in the tech bubbles like the Silicon docks who opine similar outlooks, Ireland is great for getting a few years experience before moving on to somewhere more affordable.

It's no good talking about meeting building targets if essential medical staff get outbid by investor funds and government via local authorities; the need for the latter could be reduced by restricting the former.