Mod Note Post #1 - The 2022 All Ireland Senior Football Championship.

M three · 27-07-2022 01:23PM

Sean moran not keen on giving Ulster coach Paddy Tally a greater share of the credit for Kerry's transformation. One single mention for him at the end of a long article..

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2022/07/27/sean-moran-small-changes-big-gains-and-the-alchemy-of-jack-oconnor/

WJL · 27-07-2022 02:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393617#Comment_119393617

I think all the Sunday Game panelists on the evening show knew well Walsh was MOM. They are cowards not to pick him. I wonder did anyone vote for Walsh.

Fair play to Tomas Mulcahy, Ciaran Barr, Cyril Farrell etc for voting Padraic Kelly MOM in the hurling final of 1993 v Kilkenny.

Clifford is a great footballer but I've never seen a more sacred cow in GAA. It's like it's written into every analyst's contract 'thou must say it's the greatest point you ever saw if Clifford kicks it, regardless of it being routine'.

27-07-2022 02:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393680#Comment_119393680

Havent heard too many people saying he is the best player ever but at 23 and the way he is going he has the potential to be the best ever

MfMan · 27-07-2022 02:47PM

He is indeed a singular talent, and enjoys the reputation he does because he has been playing to a consistently high standard since he joined the Kerry seniors. Is he better now than the Gooch was at the same age, or will he be seen as having been even better by the end of his career? Maybe Kerry posters best placed to comment on this. I think it's far too early to proclaim Clifford already as the best ever, we don't know how his career will pan out in the years ahead and how he will cope with adversities such as injury, loss of form or confidence and playing in a poor team etc. He is still human. Remember Martin McHugh getting carried away a few years ago and anointing James O'Donoghue with the same praise on the back of a few very good displays, which seems very wide of the mark now.

keeponhurling · 27-07-2022 02:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394563#Comment_119394563

Indeed, and it must be pointed out it's not the fault of the player either.

Neither Clifford (nor JOD for that matter) ever went on about being the greatest or anything like that.

Pussyhands · 27-07-2022 04:45PM

Shane Walsh announced as player of the week.

Would be a classy move by Clifford if he gave the MOTM award to Walsh.

An Ciarraioch · 27-07-2022 05:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394563#Comment_119394563

James O'Donoghue had the potential to be another Gooch, the problem was he was cursed by injuries on practically every occasion he had recovered from the last one. As for Clifford, Kerry fans have been tracking his career ever since his minor days (he scored 4-4 in the 2017 final against Derry), and the comparisons with Gooch and Maurice Fitz are well merited, though I'm far too young to remember the Golden Years team to judge whether he measures up to Mikey Sheehy or John Egan.

Bass Reeves · 27-07-2022 05:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393617#Comment_119393617

Previously they used to have camera's at both functions and they did interview's from both banquets. However the feeling coming from the losing banquet was they would prefer if the cameras were not there. The quid quo pro was that the MOTM would have to be selected from the winning team. Its only one year in ten the MOTM would be from the losing team. After losing you do not want to be doing interviews and behaving yourself in front of cameras. Even have to stand and watch the other team receive the cup is tough.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393680#Comment_119393680

It's not journalists. It's analysts like Kevin McStay, Whelan, O'Rourke etc. These boys have seen them all. Clifford is double and triple tagged. He still manages to be the highest scorer for Kerry in virtually every match. I have seen a good few good players and he the best at even this age I have ever seen. Very few really big players have really high skill level. The only player that I ever say that was even slightly comparable to him was Matt O'Connor of Offaly. Matt was a super free taker as well. But Clifford is a difference class.

I cannot understand lads hang ups about it. I was all the Kerry matches this year except for the Armagh match. The supporters of other teams will always acknowledge that the quality of his scores are first class.

Stephen O'Neill, Gooch, Cavanan were seldom double tagged. Clifford is virtually always and still manages 6+ points from play most days. In the Dublin game every time he got the ball there was three players on him. The same the last day, the only time they got reall caught was for the two marks. He has been carrying a knock all this year and has only trained half the time.

JRant · 27-07-2022 06:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395575#Comment_119395575

That's what every forward has to deal with these days, especially the good ones. Walsh wasn't left man vman in the final and still got 9 points so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Good players get extra attention, always have done.

Bass Reeves · 27-07-2022 06:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395616#Comment_119395616

Walsh dose not produce these displays in every match. Ya last Sunday he was exceptional but he was fairly average in a couple matches this year. Neither will he have special and specific tactics put in place to limit his impact.

JRant · 27-07-2022 07:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395668#Comment_119395668

He's been fairly handy this year and that's putting it midly. I think you'll find that's exactly what teams do when facing a player like Clifford or Walsh. They put a plan in place to try stifle them. Sometimes it works, often times it doesn't.

Gael85 · 27-07-2022 08:33PM

Not often kerry cynical fouling is called out. At it for years but glossed over by likes of Spillane.

https://www.the42.ie/kerry-defending-5826336-Jul2022/

Pussyhands · 27-07-2022 09:01PM

If Clifford was double marked he wouldn't be in the game and teams play a sweeper so that leaves two kerry players free. If this was the case kerry would make hay with the free space.

There was no attacking mark a decade ago.

Clifford is flashy but he's not the best ever. A forward claiming high balls in the air looks better than a player always being in the right place at the right time. If the mark wasn't in the game Clifford wouldn't have got those two points and no one would be talking about his fielding.

Talking about the best, Gooch is still well clear for me. Brains, guile, didn't know which foot he was, movement. Not the biggest yet well able look after himself. Could playmake as well as score.

The way the mark is, Donaghy would get 3 or 4 points a game

Bass Reeves · 27-07-2022 09:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396277#Comment_119396277

Every teams fouls, the article as good as says that. It also says that better teams use it. As well it says that previously Kerry were not really at it a much until this year where it choose to tactically foul on turnovers.

Finally Kerry transition so fast this that teams find harder to stop them on the break. Kerry plays the advantage more than .oat teams as it usually has forwards up front it want to get the ball to

eagle eye · 27-07-2022 09:12PM

So when are we getting rid of the free kick for catching a ball. It's absolutely ridiculous.

As regards the MoM, no doubt that Walsh was the best player on the day but it's always given to a player off the winning team and I've no problem with that.

Clifford is a great footballer but he's been rated as the GOAT already which is insane. For me Maurice Fitzgerald is the best Kerry forward I can remember and Cooper is a close second then Mikey Sheehy. Clifford has a long way to go to pass those legends.

dobman88 · 27-07-2022 09:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396277#Comment_119396277

Saw that earlier. Good read and it's about time kerry became smarter with their fouling. For too long it was too close to goal which conceded handy frees or else not hard enough for the ref to blow which wouldn't stop the other team.

Dublin set the standard with cynical fouling in the least dangerous areas of the pitch and just stop all momentum. Its fantastic to see kerry now seem able to execute it as well as them.

bucketybuck · 27-07-2022 09:13PM

Anybody who thinks Clifford is the best they have ever seen is talking through their arse, and thats the polite version.

Claiming that Canavan didn't get special attention is just the cherry on top.

Bass Reeves · 27-07-2022 09:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396436#Comment_119396436

The mark pre wants teams from defending too deep. Take it away and team set there defencive zones 10 Meyers close to goals. All three Kerry marks were superb last Sunday. All were above the head. Two were off the ground high fielding which was exactly the reason the mark was bought in. Previously the man winning the ball in such a situation was swamped when he landed on the ground. The third mark was a ball collected from overhead under pressure holding off a defender. If it's so easy why are other teams not found it. The rules are the same for both teams

celt262 · 27-07-2022 09:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393680#Comment_119393680

He would want to be careful with that Snapchat doing the rounds off him he won't have a great reputation if that makes the media.

JRant · 27-07-2022 09:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396510#Comment_119396510

Yeah, if I want to watch a game with the mark in it I'll stick some AFL on. Football is supposed to be a fluid game. If a forward claims a high ball they should bloody we'll be able to do something with it. Lest we forget tackling is still part of the game. What really happened is that lads were claiming high ball and immediately being fouled by the opposition. Unfortunately we seem to have referees that are one step away from the school of the blind and never gave them. So, in typical GAA fashion, rather than police the existing rules they created another one.

WJL · 27-07-2022 10:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395179#Comment_119395179

Back in 1993 when Kelly won man of the match for Galway, although they lost to Kilkenny the SG used go to the losing and winning hotels.

They haven't had interviews in the losers' hotel for a while. It facilitated them with giving a MOM to either team.

Another losing man of the match was John Taylor Laois, getting it after they lost to Kilkenny in the first round of the 1984 championship. He was picked by Donal O'Grady of Cork. A class hurler who lost out controversially on an All Star at wing back to Dermot McCurtain of Cork that year.

Pussyhands · 27-07-2022 10:48PM

I'd get rid of the attacking mark.

I'd also add a shot clock to the taking of a free kick. Goalkeepers walking up, lining it up just taking to much time. 90 seconds easily gone before the kick is taken. Just too much. Really poor reflection too that an attacker can't kick a ball over the bar from a 45

And for all the talk of the mark incentivising kicking the ball in, something that would force attackers to be able shoot well is the person fouled has to take the free kick.

Bass Reeves · 27-07-2022 10:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396569#Comment_119396569

Well it if you want to watch packed defences just outside the 21 then that is grand. I take see the two marks by Clifford last Sunday. Just like the two block downs by Stephen O'Brien were brilliant as well

JRant · 27-07-2022 10:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396736#Comment_119396736

Do away with giving the award back at the hotel. Have it announced at the end of the match like any other game. Removes the politics from it and just give it to the best player on the day.

Bass Reeves · 27-07-2022 10:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396898#Comment_119396898

Very few kickouts go beyond 30 seconds

gormdubhgorm · 27-07-2022 10:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396393#Comment_119396393

One with Gooch always sticks out to me not the obvious of the 2013 SF v Dublin. But it was another match. I can't even remember the opponent against Kerry. But I happened to be near the front in CP. Two big lumps of fellas were in front of him - Gooch on the ball. Right I said, let's see what he does here.

The Gooch feigned to go left, then right. Within a few seconds he had ran between to the two players with the ball.They were looking at each other as if to say, what happened?

I just started laughing. The only other player that has made me laugh like that (with a mixture of pure cheek and skill) was Diarmuid Connolly.

JRant · 27-07-2022 11:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396901#Comment_119396901

If he's as good as everyone says he is then Clifford should be able to field a high ball, turn, and stick it over the bar.

threeball · 27-07-2022 11:08PM

Clifford is very very good but he's not the best ever nor do I think he'll go on to be. He was a big strong minor who defences struggled against and he does kick some very good scores but skill wise he isn't the same level as Maurice Fitz and he's not as skillful as Walsh either. He's only just started getting realatively consistent on his weaker foot.

Walsh is faster, can switch from left to right without blemish and still maintain the same speed regardless of foot. The quality of scores he can kick off either foot Clifford can't do yet. Clifford has other attributes like his fielding but there has been plenty of players that can field and run up big scores. I'm not seeing anything from Clifford I haven't seen before. Walsh on the other hand put together the best 70mins I've ever seen on Sunday. It wasn't just volume, it was the quality. Even the frees were top drawer and off either foot. Yes he has been inconsistent in the past so he won't get the recognition but on skill alone he's as good as I've seen.

StupidLikeAFox · 27-07-2022 11:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396957#Comment_119396957

I think k your missing the point - if the mark wasn't there then those balls wouldn't have gone in in the first place.

gormdubhgorm · 27-07-2022 11:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396986#Comment_119396986

Yeah Clifford is not a jinky type of player. Like the likes of Canavan, Walsh, Connolly, Gooch, Donnellan. A fella who can go past a player with ease - close ball control. Those are the players the fans love and the neutrals want to see.

Clifford's game is more power based, fielding, and long range shots. I am not saying he is not a good player. But aesthetically he looks awkward. Now I know awkward looking players can be very effective like Michael Darragh McCauley. Or Johnny Doyle.

But I feel there is no stylishness to Clifford. His size pace and power, are his most utilised attributes. I think he won't go down as one of the greats mainly because of his injury record. I can't see him staying fit for a sustained period to be mentioned in the same breath as the greats of football.

Plus Clifford started so young and teams were so dependant on him. All those extra years on the legs will tell. It is not like he has that 'minding himself' slow side to side style Ciaran Kilkenny developed. Which has contributed to Kilkenny's longevity.

Mod Note Post #1 - The 2022 All Ireland Senior Football Championship.

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