Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

sydthebeat · 22-07-2022 10:47AM

id be delighted to have our RWC opponents thinking we've peaked a year early.

i expect a tough game against aussie and SA in nov. One win from those two with a bit of squad building / tactical experimenting would be a successful nov window imo.

6N 2023, anything can happen. We've england and france at home which will be winnable but very tough games, and i fully expect to win the 3 away games without too much bother.

the big question is over sextons form, can he continue for another 14 months at this level?

phily2002 · 22-07-2022 12:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371534#Comment_119371534

Can see us tripping up in Cardiff, haven't won there in the 6 nations in a while. We've the better team but they are always up for us at home

Dubinusa · 22-07-2022 01:21PM

We struggled versus Scotland. Hogg dropping the ball by the try line and blowing a 2 on 1. Wales can be up or down. I think Wales will be happy with their tour to S.A

England are the team that I think can get it all together for the world cup. They were gash a couple of years out from the last world cup and turned it around. France are a great side atm.

I doubt there's a grand slam on this coming 6nations for anyone. We do have a great chance and should be in the mix. England will be my dark horse.

stephen_n · 22-07-2022 01:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119372381#Comment_119372381

What England do or don’t do, will entirely depend on Tualagi’s fitness. Jones doesn’t have any great grand plan to reinvent the wheel. He has blooded some young players to have cohesion but England only know one way to play.

TRC10 · 22-07-2022 02:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119372422#Comment_119372422

It's not Tuilagi, it's any powerful centre who can get them over the gain line. It doesn't have to be a player of the calibre of Tuilagi. They've had success with Luther Burrell and Ben Te'o in the past. There's a dearth of powerful EQP centres in the premiership and that's a huge problem for them, as can be seen by Jones trying to get Guy Porter to fill that role.

Farrell at 12 with Slade or Marchant at 13 is seriously lacking in power. Jones has tried to compensate for that by playing a high tempo, expansive game with varying levels of success. And as you said, it doesn't come naturally to England.

Ollie Lawrence is a guy who could be that player for them. I think he was injured last season but he's young and has a great blend of power, pace and footballing ability. He's like a cross between Tuilagi and Jonathan Joseph. If he comes back and hits the ground running I think they could be in business. Dan Kelly is another one potentially.

It's ironic that two years ago Nick Tompkins went to play for Wales because he couldn't get a look in with England, but he's a player that England would love to have now.

brokenangel · 22-07-2022 02:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119372381#Comment_119372381

Hogg dropping the ball over the line was the first game of the Farrell era and the first game after the 2019 WC. THe entire team was lacking in confidence plus the game changed in the first few mins when Doris was taken off with a knock so game plan out the window.

It was a win at the end of the day.

England last cycle had an excellent 2016 and 2017 season, didn't they win both 6 nations and only came unstuck in Ireland to miss out on the record for most games unbeaten?

Then 2018 came and the wheels came off very quickly, then the SA tour and totally fell off. Mitchell was hired in then and it all changed right up to the WC. They ran NZ close that Nov in a down pour before Ireland beat NZ.

Even with all the talk of England 2019 they won nothing. Wales won the Grand Slam and England lost in the final.

England are not a dark horse in any competition. They have too much money and too many people to be a dark horse. Even in the WC they have a very easy run to the final

TRC10 · 22-07-2022 03:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373060#Comment_119373060

Even in the WC they have a very easy run to the final

They have Wales or Australia in the quarter final and Us, France, SA or NZ in the Semi. I wouldn't call that easy.

South Africa's run to the final last time was as 'easy' as it gets.

I see a France v NZ final.

If we can win our group and then turn over NZ in the quarters, it's Wales, Australia or Argentina in the semi.

22-07-2022 03:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373158#Comment_119373158

Yeah, but by far the softest group to emerge from, so they shouldn't need to over-exert themselves to get to the QFs. They're in a group with the current world #9 & #10 who they'll be confident they'll account for without much trouble.

TRC10 · 22-07-2022 03:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373225#Comment_119373225

If Argentina and Japan have proven anything, it's that they can be a bit of a banana skin at World Cups. We should know this better than anyone.

Even still, I fully expect England to win that group and beat Wales/Australia in the quarters. But I can't see them getting past a likely Semi final v France.

It's funny that England have been fairly dreadful for the last couple of years, yet we fully expect them to make the semis. We're probably as strong as we've ever been, yet very few see us making the semis. I know it's partly because of the draw, but even if we had England's draw, I'd struggle to see us beating Wales or Aus in a quarter final.

Dubinusa · 22-07-2022 05:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373253#Comment_119373253

A lot of luck would be nice! Good referees in particular. I think we can win the world cup. But, I believe our route could be a little too much. We will see.

Lost Ormond · 22-07-2022 05:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373701#Comment_119373701

What specifically do you want in terms of luck from officials. I wouldnt be thinking about winning a world cup even with how well we've done recently. getting through 1 round of knockouts would be great. gives us 2 more games guaranteed. that first. wouldnt be talking about winning a world cup at all.

Dubinusa · 22-07-2022 05:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373720#Comment_119373720

We should be going into the tournament believing we will win it.

Luck plays a part too. Avoiding particularly poor refs would be ideal. Not sustaining injuries would be good luck.

Ardillaun · 22-07-2022 05:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373253#Comment_119373253

I think England and France have a harder time bringing their greater resources to bear on international games between World Cups than we do. The domestic leagues are a bigger distraction.

Lost Ormond · 22-07-2022 06:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373837#Comment_119373837

You say avoid poor refs. You get whats appointed. there is only 12 officials(refs - there is more there but who'll only be ARs/TMOs) and if we manage to get an official at a game that reduces number again who can do our games especially South African game as they'll likely have a ref or 2 selected

We will sustain injuries and most likely at least 1 tournament ending one over the course of the warm ups/tournament itself. Nature of the sport.

sprucemoose · 22-07-2022 06:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373720#Comment_119373720

for me, id like to get the luck of the draw when it will come to referee selection for the games, especially any potential games against france. a 'hometown' ref in such a game could basically be game over, as it was in the last rwc. as poor as ireland were against japan, they would have still won if there had been a fair(ish) ref

salmocab · 22-07-2022 06:07PM

Surely if it’s just from the point of view of the winning or losing of a game then he’s as likely to win you a game as lose it.

redmca2 · 22-07-2022 09:01PM

Has the number of players permitted in each WC squad been decided yet?

Clegg · 22-07-2022 09:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374587#Comment_119374587

This is from an article dated February 2021. Squad size has been increased from 31 to 33. Extra rest days have been built in as well.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/bigger-squad-sizes-and-more-rest-days-new-rugby-world-cup-measures-confirmed-40118527.html

Must love hardship · 23-07-2022 09:33AM

Ireland have a lovely gap between the South African game and the Scotland game in the world cup.

Allows plenty of time to recover and prepare for Scotland too.

Shehal · 23-07-2022 09:55AM

Do some people on here not think before they comment?

We literally played NZL 3 games in 3 weeks, we play 3 games in 3 weeks in the autumn and in the 6N we play 5 games in 7 weeks...all of that = No Problem

Playing SA & Scotland in 3 weeks at a RWC = Problem

Can someone please make that make sense and please save you're breath saying the difference is its a Rugby World Cup as that's nothing but a complete cop out.

awec · 24-07-2022 06:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119375780#Comment_119375780

In fairness, we brought 40 players to New Zealand and are limited to 33 for the World Cup. We also have 4 pool games, not just 2.

Yes, 2 should be walkovers but we don’t have a squad big enough to field a 2nd 23 so game time needs to be managed carefully.

You also need to manage game time with an eye on the 5th match the week after, again with the same 33 man squad.

it’s totally different to summer or autumn tours.

Autumn games have no squad limitations.

AbusesToilets · 24-07-2022 07:24PM

What is the purpose for a limitation on squad size for the WC? Is it to try and even the disparity in resources between Tier 1 countries and the rest?

Lost Ormond · 24-07-2022 07:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381734#Comment_119381734

Same as any tournament. you need to put a limit. Partially to counter that and also it standardizes squads for everyone. Nearly any team sport will limit squad size for tournaments like this

Shehal · 24-07-2022 07:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381494#Comment_119381494

Well yes it does but at worst in those cases some of the first choice players will need to play 3 pool games which isnt much considering 1 is a walk over and the 2 others have a 2 week gap between them, if anything that's probably a good thing as having our players going into SA in match 3 without playing any rugby in the previous 2 games will almost be a worse scenario especially when you consider SA will have already played Scotland at this point so will definitely be battle hardened. Yes there are some differences but I dont think the difference arent big enough that the fact its a RWC is a valid excuse, it might be a factor but its a minimal factor at best if we manage our squad well enough.

Also at the end of the day the other 19 team have to go through the exact same situation so we can hardly say its a factor that specifically hurts us and if we are being honest while its a shitter of a fixture list potentially from an Irish perspective we actually haven't done too badly in terms of the fixture lay out.

irelandrover · 24-07-2022 08:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119375780#Comment_119375780

Because ideally we are going for the three weekends following the Scotland game as well. 5 tough games in 5 weeks is a lot more than normal.

If you simply look at the Scotland and South Africa game then the week isn't important. If you look at the overall picture then that week becomes very important.

Shehal · 25-07-2022 07:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119381982#Comment_119381982

If we get through the pool we will have at most 4 games in 4 weeks as we have a week break between SA & Scotland.

At the end of the day all other 7 Quarter Finalists will have to play at least 3 tough games in 3 weeks if they want to lift the trophy so in the end its not really an issue unique to Ireland. England & SA who contested the final last time played their toughest games using 25 players or so so it can be done we just need to manage our squad. We just won a 3 match series in NZL using more or less that number and judging by how error strewn we were in the first test and Maori game maybe having 2 or 3 games where the players can get a run out together in the pool stage isnt a bad thing. There is no better preparation than a 3 match series in NZL so maybe that will stand us in good stead.

This time unlike the previous RWC's the atmosphere in the Irish camp is a-lot more uplifting and alot less stressful which might be what we need to get ourselves mentally up for a QF.

Former Former Former · 25-07-2022 07:51AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119383311#Comment_119383311

This time unlike the previous RWCs the atmosphere in the Irish camp is a-lot more uplifting and a lot less stressful

We're 15 months away from the RWC.

15 months prior to the last World Cup, we were Grand Slam Champions, the European champions were an Irish team and we had just won a series in Australia, and we were a few months away from beating NZ for the second time in history.

15 months prior to the previous RWC, we were Six Nations champions, had just won a 2-0 tour in Argentina, a few months later we would beat South Africa and Australia and of course we would go on to win the next 6N too.

Mad how these things get completely re-written.

irelandrover · 25-07-2022 08:27AM

If we get through the pool we will have at most 4 games in 4 weeks as we have a week break between SA & Scotland

Yes, which is why the week off before that run is important. You'd expect the SA game to be an attritional game also so an extra week recovery to prepare for Scotland is only a good thing.

Shehal · 25-07-2022 09:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119383347#Comment_119383347

Except you completely ignored my point, the results on the field merely papered over cracks that weren't present until things went wrong, we saw this at the 2015 RWC and all the way through 2019. The players were more robotic and the camp was less enjoyable but that wasn't a problem when Ireland were winning but as soon as things went South the cracks appeared.

Also its must be said the results are somewhat irrelevant here its the way Ireland are carrying out themselves now compared to the 2 previous RWC's that shows how this is a different regime, compare the way Ireland played against NZL in 2022 with what Ireland in 2018 and 2014 did on tour? Ireland had a look of a team that didnt just want to beat NZL but dominate them whereas Ireland in 2018 & 2014had a look of a team that wanted to do just enough.

Also the big issue in 2014 and 2018 was they never evolved and continued to try do the same thing in 2018 & 2014 a year later when teams had figured it out, we have to wait and see will this Irish team will make the same mistakes but the fact the players are already acknowledging all this, something they werent doing the previous 2 campaigns, is reason enough to give them the benefit of the doubt for now at least.

In reality is we wont know who was right or wrong until 2023 as there will be twists and turns between then and now and questions will be thrown at Ireland and we'll have to see if they have the right answers.

Shehal · 25-07-2022 09:49AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119383419#Comment_119383419

It is very important and also while Scotland will be tough it wont be the most attritional game ever meaning we hopefully arent going into a QF, provided results go well, completely spent. It wont be easy squad management wise but I would expect a squad with Ireland's experience and ability to be able to cope provided the right selections are made in each game.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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