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Cities around the world that are reducing car access

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Comments

  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    This changes very little. It's not being pedestrianised any time soon. The headline should be changed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    What are the car park's "insurmountable structural difficulties that cannot be overcome"? You just turn right and right again?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    The very complex process of repainting some markings....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,478 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    We had that problem that was solved by introducing pay parking. No house can have more than two permits carrying an annual charge - any more must pay the hourly charge.

    Obviously, there likely would be a limit to the number of spaces as well. If there are more tickets required than spaces, 1st ticket is one price, 2nd costs much more. Clamps then tend to sort the problem out. We pay €50 per year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    50€ a year to store your personal property in a public space?

    Or have I read that wrong?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    What's depressing is this statement.

    "In what’s believed to be one of the first efforts in the country to tackle the problem"


    No, bending over backwards for people to store multiple cars on street is not tackling the problem. Not even close.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,452 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    We should go for the Japanese solution - you can't buy a car unless you prove you have private off-road storage space for it.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    It could be put that way, but at least I paid something for the right to pay to park my car outside my house, or any house in my street instead of not being able to park there for free because others parked theirs blocking the street.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,448 ✭✭✭Mrs Shuttleworth


    My partner is disabled and needs to be dropped by car at the door if we go to events, meals or on errands. Anywhere that goes "pedestrianised" such as Capel Street where there's no taxi or car drop off therefore becomes a no go zone for him. I also remember when I was almost knocked down by a speeding cyclist in Smithfield tearing down the down ramp near Bel Cibo, anyone who wasn't fast on their feet would be a goner. The nutty Green Party don't give a damn about the disabled or mobility impaired. Voting with my feet and just won't be spending any money in these areas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Why is that though? Does he have a wheelchair or mobility scooter?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Accommodation for the disabled should be at the forefront of any pedestrianisation project.

    It is not true that the Green Party do not give a damn about the disabled and it is wrong of you to say so. Why do you blame them for shortcomings in the implementation of a single project? Disabilities manifest in different ways, and not all disabilities can be accommodated in a plan but generally implementation attempts to cater for as many as possible. Most of the problems for those that require special provision are caused by those who do not have any disability being thoughtless towards those that do have difficulties, like those parking on the pavement, or those parking in designated parking spaces.

    Do you have any evidence that the absence of your partner's requirements were omitted from the plans by anyone at all, let alone by the Green Party?

    You are accusing the Green Party of deliberately doing something they clearly had no hand, act or part in. Now I am not in any way associated with any political party, but I object to the continuous blaming of the Green Party for things they do not do, nor propose. Perhaps you might contact them and ask for their views in this matter and inform them of yours. You might be surprised how close your views actually are to theirs.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,181 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i think that's standard in dublin city council territory where paid parking is provided. if you don't have a driveway, you can get a permit to park near your house for €50 a year and i think up to 20 permits lasting 24 hours each for visitors, they were €1.25 each when i got some about 12 years ago.

    i've heard of some neighbourhoods rejecting the idea of introducing paid parking schemes like this; the council will often put it to a vote before introducing it in an area.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The problem is not the cars. It’s the unavailability of housing for the grown up children. People getting animated about the wrong thing here



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The reason the plan gets rejected is usually because the amount of paid parking falls short of that required by the residents. For example the street can accommodate 30 cars but the residents think they need 40 places for current requirements.

    Pay parking is the way to go in the absence of inadequate provision in a location.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,452 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    How does your partner manage in large shopping centres, where the disabled parking could well be a km or two away from the shops?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,181 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    IIRC the car must be insured at the property too, part of proving you're not just bagging a cheap permanent parking space for any car. i think this catches a lot of students, etc., out, where the car might be insured at their parents home which could be down the country.

    i used to live in phibsboro and got the visitor permits; i didn't own a car when i was living there but was often able to borrow my mother's car, but usually at weekends when there was no requirement to pay anyway.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,181 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    one bad thing leading to another bad thing does not negate the second bad thing.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes, but solving for the 2nd just exacerbates the first. Not only can the young person not buy or afford to rent a house, they also now can’t have a car (or it’s made more expensive)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    But putting in more parking doesn't solve those problems... It still doesn't make rent or housing cheaper...

    It's a lazy and cheap fix by council to cars abandoned willy nilly in an estate, because they don't need to tackle questions like 'should we enforce parking bye laws' or 'why does every 4bed semi D have 1 on property space... But feel the need to have provision made for 5 cars as close as possible to their house', 'why can't we improve the local bus / cycle /train alternatives' etc etc



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    What's the matter? Just park on the footpath. It's free.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,181 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,181 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,297 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Under the recommended plan, Croke Park would have been a motorway interchange.

    I recall another plan to tarmac over the canals.

    Edit: typo fixed!

    Post edited by Seth Brundle on


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,297 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    More info on the Travers, Morgan & partners plan...




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    I've not read them, but I read this for the first time over a decade ago and has been dipped into ever since for use in a plethora of college and university assignments over the years.

    You'll love it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭McGrath5


    Bonkers stuff, would have turned Dublin city into something like a US city eg Kansas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭gjim


    The worst thing about the traffic plans is that they were futile (and the traffic engineers must have known this) because of the lack of money. Dublin Corp could afford initial stage: plan/pick streets for "widening", CPO and buy buildings along the routes, empty the buildings of any businesses or tenants, allow the buildings to fall apart through neglect, demolish them, refused any planning permission for building along the routes, etc. so that over a period of 30 or 40 years, huge swathes of the city were reduced to dereliction and rubble. Dublin in the 1980s looked like a city emerging from a war after suffering major bombing campaigns, thanks to the corpo's traffic engineers and general indifference to state of Dublin.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,181 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sadly, we live in a country with a huge housing crisis and most people are forced to live outside Dublin.

    But of course the jobs are all based in Dublin and lots of employers still expect employees to go to an office each day.

    Public transport is really bad, particularly outside of Dublin. Lots of large towns don't even have a rail option.

    We need to tackle all of these issues together and find solutions that benefit us all.

    Removing cars from the city might be good for some people. But it will make life hell for lots of others.


    People not able to afford properties is the real issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Car free areas /= banning cars from the city centre.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,297 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Attempts to improve public transport as an option to the public are usually met with opposition from various angles. Look at the opposition to the works in Fairview. Look at much of the history of the BusConnects projects.

    We also have opposition to any attempts to stop urban sprawl. People don't want to live in areas where there are no nearby facilities yet demand their right to one off housing or for a new housing estate miles from anything.

    We want to be sustainable as long as it doesn't present an nconvenience!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,181 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    genuine question - how many people do you know who live in the country and drive into the city centre?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,271 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl



    Those driving in from suburban towns would find life a lot easier if people weren't also driving into town from the North Strand. Removing as many car journeys as possible is what does benefit everyone.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I live in Meath. We don't have a train and the bus is expensive, poor service and takes an age to get into Dublin.

    Most houses in my estate have 2 cars in the driveway and lots even have a third parked outside.

    The vast majority of the estate who don't work from home get in their cars every morning and head into Dublin whether that's city centre, blanch etc.

    But I also have plenty of friends in my age group that live in Kildare, Laois, Wicklow etc and most of those are driving also.


    If I could afford it, I'd have bought in Drumcondra or Castleknock and I'd happily never have to pay for a car, insurance, tax, diesel, maintenance etc



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I was in Lanzarote many years ago, and driving round I was surprised to see a road that appeared not to go anywhere. I drove down it and it was a development with roads, street lighting - everything except houses. The whole thing was fully there before any houses were built.

    In Ireland it is the owner of the site who decides what goes into that site, given zone decided by the local development plan.

    Take the Irish Glass Bottle site that has laid vacant for well over a decade with no definite plan of what is to go there - and was in state ownership for most of that decade. Why did the DCC not decide, and actually plan, for what was to go there?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I was recently forced onto public transport for a week and coming from the outer reaches into Dublin is absolutely no fun and very costly. On average it was twice as expensive, even at these fuel rates and took twice as long so it's really not a realistic option for many.

    If you drew a line through Blackrock, out to Palmerston and around to Raheny that is about the extent of good public transport and even there there are large pockets that are poorly served. I see no great issues with the intentions on North Strand but it creates absolutely massive problems for the morning rush hour and some slightly better thinking might have worked better.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Of course making public transport free, or nearly free, would remove the cost argument. Making all day parking expensive would make all day parking a thing of the past. Encouraging car sharing would deal with the cost and parking issues. Now not everyone could benefit from these measures, but if many benefit, then those who cannot would also see less traffic, so that would be good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,478 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    It's a bit more nuanced than that. In a lot of cases it's people not being able to afford the type of house they want in an area they want, so they choose to live out in the sticks. I have friends who bought in places like Duleek and Ashbourne, and drive to work now in the city. They could have bought houses where I bought mine in Dublin, but a lot of people would turn their noses up at the area.

    So why should people who live in the city have to suffer all the traffic because of this?

    A lot of people made their own bed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Houses in finglas are cheaper than houses in naas



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,271 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl



    The problem is that a massive number of people within that ring are driving in. There is not much getting around that and it will continue to be the problem no matter what is done. Very few people affected by the North Strand issue do not have good public transport into Dublin city centre. What better thinking might have worked better?

    The new 2€ fare covers a fair chunk of area, I'm surprised if that is more expensive than driving for anyone within it. For those public transport is not viable we should look to improve it, but again there is no getting away from the fact that public transport (mostly buses) can only be improved if we reallocate road space for it.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,271 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl



    For the most part cost is not the prohibitive reason for using public transport. It is frequency and reliability.

    Our trains are too expensive, but outside that there is going to be pretty edge cases where travelling by car is cheaper. It is more convenient.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,549 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Pre Leap, pre €2 fares and with cheaper fuel "it's dearer than driving" came up a lot here.

    People who notionally always had their spouse and 17 year old twins to go with them so it was four adult cash fares being compared to a few litres of 1.29 petrol and the cheapest crash-era surface carpark thats now an apartment block.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    Cllr Niall Ring complaining that residents of Ballybough and North Strand will find it more difficult to drive to the city centre. Good! There are very few occasions and very few excuses to drive from there into town!

    He wants locals to be able to use the bus lane.

    "Cllr Ring said without this compromise residents will have to travel out of the city first before they can follow the diversions to get back into the city centre."




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Maybe cost is not a prohibitive reason to not use PT, but most people would find free PT hard to resist.

    It frees the user from the traffic jams, finding and paying for parking, paying for fuel, and paying for the extra servicing. If they could do without the car - or the second car - that is a huge saving. It is also less stressful - if one can avoid the antisocial ********.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,271 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl



    All of these things are still true even with the incredibly moderate fare.

    I'm not opposed to free public transport, but I just do not think it solves anything.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Well, there are a large percentage of people already have free PT, like those over 65 (or is it 66), and they use it - well they do if the PT is available to them.

    One benefit of getting more onto PT is the consequent reduction in traffic, allowing buses to move more freely.



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