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TD Ciaran Cannon hit by SUV, suffers serious injury

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I am strongly tempted to change tactics on reporting and go to the HSA as well as the Gardai going forward. Just to see if they actually follow through on their statutory obligations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,265 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The HSA is responsible for health and safety in the workplace. I am not sure if they would get involved in this. However they look at the total issue and how safety can be improved. They could actually put some onus on the cyclist for his own safety. This is similar in the workplace where protocols are put in place which place responsibility on the worker for his own safety

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,817 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    a trucker driving a truck is by definition in his (or her) own workplace, no?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,265 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    This incident was between a car and a cyclist. Yes a truck driver is in his workplace. However the HSA would defer to the Gardai as it's a traffic accident. Where they would get involved is where poor truck lighting was an issue or where something on the truck was part of the accident.

    There remit is totally different to Gardai. They have a total remit for workplace safety. If the roadway was considered to be a workplace they could decide to remove all cyclist from the workplace

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,167 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    This incident was between a car and a cyclist.

    ...and not between a driver and a bike? Or between a driver and a cyclist? Why did you exclude the one person most deem responsible?



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I was responding to the post about Trucks, Takis etc. not specifically this case.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    They actually ran an advertisement campaign clarifying that if you are driving for work, you are at work and the employer has responsibilities as does the employee, seperate to road traffic legislation.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,167 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The HSA have a whole section about driving for work on their website...

    That page says...

    Driving for work involves a risk not only for drivers, but also for fellow workers and members of the public, such as pedestrians and other road users. As an employer or self-employed person, you must, by law, manage the risks that may arise when you or your employees drive for work. Employers should have systems in place to ensure that Driving for Work activities are road safety compliant. Employers cannot directly control roadway conditions, but they can promote and influence safe driving behaviour and actions by their employees.




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,817 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i mentioned here before that i once brought the attention of a garda to a grab truck (parked on the footpath) outside the local spar. he was disinterested in it being obnoxiously parked, but paid attention when i told him the tyres were bald (and the treads were totally gone on one tyre).

    what annoyed me about that is that i assume the driver will get the punishment and not the fleet manager who was sending the drivers out in vehicles with obviously defective tyres.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    Everyone agrees it sh1t driving now you might actually address questions in my post. Can you forget about the driver an deal with the cyclist actions even if honest answers might be less than complementary of his risk avoidance.

    Good roadcraft? You'd advise a loved one to cycle in that manner.

    The car beside was stopped not slow moving. Stopped beside a busy entrance/junction on a road he knew well and didn't correct his speed.

    He's entitled not to but would you advise it or not?

    He's not on the quays in Dublin or along the canal, he's in Galway were cyclists are much more scare and less likely that an average motorist will even consider a cyclist overtaking in that location. Whether they should or shouldn't is irrelevant in terms of assessing the risk.

    Slow moving traffic stopping at entrances/junctions is a regular feature of traffic and one a cyclist should consider in order to keep themselves safe or can they just discount the risk because they are entitled to overtake?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    Victim blaming allegation is room 101 for killing honest discussion. You don't want to answer my questions because you don't like the answers



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,526 ✭✭✭Tombo2001




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,526 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    I dont want to answer your questions because I think they are the wrong questions.

    My question is: Why didnt the DPP prosecute?

    Your question is: Should Ciaran Cannon have known better?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    The car beside had only immediately stopped. It wasn't a busy junction. It was one he was very familiar with too


    He was right at the cars rear before it came actually came to a stop. Is it poor roadcraft to not predict the future 2 second. The driver who hit him was already crossing the lane too while the car was moving before it stopped. It all happened a lot quicker than you seem to imagine it did. The driver should not have let the other one cross. There was no need. There no break in the traffic.


    I don't know why they didn't prosecute, neither do you. They've prosecuted lesser and won and worse and lost.


    Cannon is the only one who did nothing wrong as he behaved entirely predictably .



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭kirving



    I go mountain biking most weekends, and I often encounter road cyclists while driving there. I'm very happy to take my time in passing them, but I'm constantly being waved on by them, even on blind bends and even with other cyclists coming down hill opposite us on occasion.

    I get that being followed by a car is pressuring, but so it being aggressively waved on and shouted at for not passing. (and no, I wasn't too close, and the car was on EV mode)



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,265 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Why did the DPP not prosecute

    They must have felt it was not a case they could win in court. They are independent of the state. It's is there decision and there decision alone. Maybe there analysis was that the driver was not completely at fault.

    We do not know as the case did not go to court.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,780 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    That's a bit like saying all drivers should drive at 5kpm in urban areas in case someone runs off the pavement in front of them.

    Because what you want is cyclists to drive at a snails space to avoid an accident caused by bad driving.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,780 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Regardless of what or who signals you. Its the driver who is ultimately responsible. So take that "go on to hell" advice from a passenger at your peril.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    That's a false comparison; the risk is entirely to the cyclist. I'm suggesting the cyclist does something about that.

    I regularly control my speed driving when going through green lights/junctions I have priority in order to reduce my risk of having an impact with an idiot. I could choose not to an increase my risk of an impact

    The only way cyclist can control that is by adjusting his behaviour. Not controlling speed in the middle of a 2 m channel and 1m from the inside of a line of a stopping is putting himself at unnecessary risk.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    Get me Book of evidence and I'll have an educated guess.

    Why are questions that some cyclist could learn from and avoid an accident the wrong questions? They are the wrong questions because you don't like the answers.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    The control is to travel really cautiously in that channel; he's out of view when a driver starts turn


    The seating position in any car is circa 1.6 from front bumper. He's 1m inside line of cars and vulnerable to anyone turning.

    The only reasonable control is a slow speed and being alert for stopped/stopping vehicles.

    You'd advise a loved one to cycle exactly like Cannon there! Third time asking now..



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,780 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It's exactly the comparison.

    You might as well say when driving and you have green light you should stop and check there isn't a lorry breaking the lights because you will end up worse off.

    If a truck does hit you, you'll be at fault because you're at greater risk.

    Now you're asking will you let someone drive knowing that if a 40 ton truck hits them they get hurt possibly killed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,780 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,780 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It's a blind turn across traffic...at speed. Seating position my Barney.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,780 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    #1 The only thing unique about Galway is drivers complaining about traffic created by themselves. They are the traffic.

    #2 The effort they go to block traffic solutions like cycling infrastructure. Because it will get in the way of creating more car traffic. (See #1).

    #3 None of this (1&2) is unique to Galway or Ireland. You just can't join the dots.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie



    I'd advise them to cycle as they think is safe and normal if it's a road and junction familiar to them and use their personal judgemw t


    Again cannon was in moving traffic, on familiar roads at a junction that wasn't remotely as busy as you've made it out to be.


    You class victim blaming as a route to shutting down discussion but keep up with whataboutery.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,780 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I assume you meant to quote "drive over you" BottleandGlassHim.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,966 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    The driver can’t see through other vehicles…that’s a simple fact… he is within his rights to make the turn… the cyclist should have been cognisant of that fact… slowed down when approaching the junction / turn and checked for traffic… had he done so he will see the vehicle turning and react accordingly…

    a good common sense decision by the DPP



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,624 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    He’s absolutely not within his rights to make the turn if he’s completely blind to road traffic that has right of way.

    The driver should have been cognisant that anyone in the cycle lane had the right of way and should have slowed down when making the turn and checking for traffic.

    It’s no different than if a pedestrian had been crossing the road.

    Absolutely sick of this whole notion that it’s the cyclist’s fault for not cycling defensively because of inconsiderate clowns who don’t know the rules of the road.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,966 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    The DPP disagree with you evidently..

    Was he completely blind ? he would have checked, what he could see at the time he started his turn there was no traffic, but the cyclist had the opportunity themselves to slow whilst approaching the turn and break in traffic.



This discussion has been closed.
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